Idea for Eve of Harvest Rework

[Bobmax]

@TheInterpreter

Again, you’re not trying to kill anyone early but simply stall & farm minion waves unless it’s a clear gank. You’re also not taking into account dmg means they have to actually hit you. You’re not supposed to he rotating

Sorry but to me it seems you don’t understand 5v5 meta currently. 5v5 is literally ALL about snowball. It’s about early kills, invades, bullying in lane (with the little time you spend in it). If you do not fight early you lose your lane, which leads to losing jungle. That puts you levels behind, items behind. There’s no coming back against any decent team. There’s no laning phase in this meta. Yes you do clear lane but it’s the thing that puts you ahead and leads to the huge snowballs. You can ask any high elo player on the forum or anywhere what happens when you hide behind turret and do not do anything but farm lane.

@TheInterpreter

sg and eve both come from heavy shard

That’s a misunderstanding. It’s called heavy prism. Shard is the t2 item with pierce.

@TheInterpreter

CP Buff assumes your enemy has the cp buff, and that specific enemy has targetted your lane. All the rest is extrapolating that they’re going to be better at stuff than you.

No, its not assuming. There’s very very high chance of you losing yours while they get a buff because damage item would outperform Eve as first and second item and you agreed on that. So I am not saying if one is better. You yourself agreed in actual confrontation Eve wouldn’t outdo a damage item if both have same skill level. Here’s an example from literally the next sentence in your post:

@TheInterpreter

Again, I’ve already said that in a mechanically even sg and eve battle, the eve user will struggle and likely lose

So if you say that literally after the last thing I quoted I really don’t see your point. Why would the Eve user have advantage in a jungle fight?

Ganks and dives aren’t relevant if you hug turret? Maybe that will save you a few times if you do it 100% of the time but at that point enemy mid laner would be so ahead that it won’t even matter. They’d just go for dragons, turrets, even harder jungle starvation etc.

@TheInterpreter

every time you disagree with me you completely ignore the fact that I’ve already responded to most of the things you’re saying multiple times.

But that’s because you responding doesn’t mean the reply is actually answering what I asked. And also I find it kinda funny how you said multiple times I am the one suggesting damage item user would be more skilled one. That’s because of 2 reasons. Firstly you yourself said Eve would get outperformed as I showed above and secondly this:

@TheInterpreter

All the rest is extrapolating that they’re going to be better at stuff than you

Here’s what you said about me and here’s what you said later:

@TheInterpreter

And again, a few points of cp dmg less can be mitigated in an actual fight by dodging some of the abilities they throw at you.

@TheInterpreter

I have no problem with discussing ideas but the discussion should be realistic. 10-40 points of dmg difference is something that skill can definitively compensate for.

Here’s a contradiction from you. So don’t tell me I’m the one assuming higher or lower skill in the scenarios we talked about.

About in-game, sure I’ll try to add you and play with you. I’ll check how the ping is when I can.

[hazeleyes]

Would you two mind taking your back-and-forth to DMs instead of derailing the original topic with your argument?

Thanks.

(It’s not that the subject of the dispute isn’t potentially interesting – it’s just that the arguing itself is not.)

[TheInterpreter]

Meta and how go play is opinion, not fact, in most cases. Snowball assumes you’re going to die or somehow lose jungle when that isn’t a guarantee. You’re not literally going to spend every minute in lane farming and you are not accounting for your team having any reliability in any way.

You’re seriously making a point about discrepancy in the name of an item you knew I was talking about anyway?

You assume the issue of the buff as if any one of the 4 ppl on your team or the potentially 4 other enemies not contesting you won’t get it, like there is going to be a guaranteed tradeoff between your laner and their jungler 100%. That’s an assumption that’s hard to make, while an enemy missing some of their As and Bs and you landing some is not.

I didn’t say the eve user has an advantage in jungle. I specifically outlined where and how the eve user has an advantage. We’re talking about early game so how much further can the enemy be. Again you’re saying things that aren’t relevant to the original argument to prove your point.

I’ve answered what you asked. Multiple times. Literally stated your question with a response afterwards. I’m not going to quote myself.

And where is the contradiction in saying a few points of damage less can be dealt with by dodging their abilities and saying that skill can deal with them throwing abilities at you and you being at a 10-40 point disadvantage? That’s literally the same statement in different words. You’re literally making up a contradiction when there isn’t one.

@Guest_78 Agreed they’re probably going to hit more than once but they’re not likely to have a 100% hit rate on abilities that usually have to travel distance, do damage over time, have a wind up period, or don’t do as much dmg without the benefits of maxed based dmg or high cp ratio. Meaning if you just avoid getting hit often enough you can force them to abandon their push while wearing down their non-recovering hp.

I’m with @hazeleyes here. If you want to have a serious discussion we can do it in dms @Bobmax but your responses, especially your last one, are at the point of even twisting my words. This isn’t the first time you’ve did this when I’ve debated something with you so I’m not going to continue it here but if you decide to not do things like say there’s a contradiction where none is or say I’m not answering your questions when I literally have, almost 2 to 3 times over, each time you asked them, then we can have a real debate in dms.

Otherwise you can just see what I’m saying and why it sometimes works for my playstyle in game, but I’m definitely not continuing a back and forth here with how you’re trying to play with my words. It would turn into me quoting myself over and over.

[Guest_78]

@TheInterpreter

Meaning if you just avoid getting hit often enough you can force them to abandon their push while wearing down their non-recovering hp.

As well as you, they can also avoid the damage.

[Bobmax]

The snowball jungle meta isn’t an opinion, it’s a fact. Ask literally anybody. Laner staying in lane = lost lane. This is a problem with the meta yes but it is how it is. Not making things up. And no I am not assuming you don’t have teammates but so does your opposing laner. Mid laner missing is not a bit thing then? Alright one of the 2 carries not rotating to the buff they’re supposed to get isn’t playstyle it’s just wrong.

About shard, what did I say? I just said you mixed the items didn’t make any points out of it. Just clarified. But now after checking your VGpro you do build it as second item after Eve anyway.

You said you have an advantage early game in lane if you hug turret but you also said even early game damage items will outperform Eve. So I don’t see your point. How an item that’s worse would win against a better one? Jungle or lane doesn’t matter, Eve will always lose as first item. And these things ARE relevant. Jungle is MORE than relevant to mid lane. It literally dictates how the game goes.

Your contradiction is that you said I am talking as if the Eve user is less skilled and that’s the reason they’d lose. But at the same time you said Eve’s lack of damage is compensated for with skill from the Eve user and that Eve user would be dodging abilities as if enemy is rooted and can’t do the same. No matter how you see it if both laners land the same amount of skill shots Eve would lose always. And again that’s only 1v1 where Eve is at it’s best.

And again you’re making this personal. What do you mean I’ve done this before? Disagree with you? Sure. I think I’ve disagreed with most people here when I don’t agree with them (duh). Am I not allowed to have an opinion? I am not saying anything about you. I just love game meta/balance discussion and you always turn it in a way as if I am attacking you. As I told you I talk to everyone the same way depending on their post. If I agree with your opinion I won’t say anything. Don’t see where the problem is if I disagree though.

Anyway, I added you. Don’t know what you want from me exactly but I’m down for anything. Just tell me when you would play.