VG Community Forums

Idea for Eve of Harvest Rework


#22

In 3v3 he is broken, in 5v5 he is strong, without the burst available thanks to the tank meta (and SH) it’s very easy for him to charge DE, and the fact that most of the tanks that are used are melee ones makes him easy to make the resonance bounce.


#23

Alpha is also melee, koshka, Taka (I’m not saying they are viable though). What I mean is that there has been plenty of melee cp heroes through VG history, including Cp GJ, but from all those heroes, only Reim has consistently used EoH.


#24

What position? Mid?
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#25

Yes, if you want, XenoTek has played him a few times :slight_smile:


#26

You’re making me want a cp adc swordsman hero. Like a cp kensei but preferably a girl to bring something new to the swordsman group in vg


#27

EoH Alpha could work tbh but she’s not that good right now and when she is people buy damage because her sustain is already too good. Kosh and Taka are both assassins and Koshka is viable in the top lane when played properly. CP GJ is a proc hero with no consistent CP damage. It’s the heroes, not the item.


#28

I’m just saying that we have CP melee heroes, if none of them use an item that is in theory good for melee heroes, then it’s not the heroes but the item.


#29

lol Eve can’t be good for melee heroes because half of CP heroes aren’t doing consistent dmg over time, they’re burst.

As for the equal skill argument, I already said the enemy will out damage me. In an equal skill battle, an eve user will have a rough time. If you are more mechanically skilled as an eve user, you will outlast a stronger opponent even if they’re skilled themselves.

@Bobmax Agreed all those items have a greater impact on the game and killing, but eve has a greater impact on keeping you alive. Also, all the heroes you mention struggle with energy requirements if they’re in the thick of battle. They all can’t survive on a battery past early game. By the way I should be clear that to me struggling means EVER running out of energy. I don’t like my cp heroes or captains running out of energy. Ever.


#30

Reasons not to buy EoH on Samuel, Malene, Celeste, and Skaarf:

-your team is peeling for you and needs you to do damage
-your team is peeling for you
-peeling for you
-peeling

The item is sort of relevant in 3s where you can go Celeste Krul + any other item but playing a mage in the lane is bad so it EoH currently isn’t fulfilling any spot right now besides in Reim’s kit.

I feel the requirements for being an EoH user would be:

-low cooldown abilties (just like how you want decent attack speed on an SM user)
-lots of CP damage (just like how you want raw WP on an SM user)
-internal sustain (just like how you want your SM user to have a barrier or FH)
-either CC or mobility

Mid lane hypercarries can build this item but what’s the point when you’re ranged and have peel. SM had 100 WP now 80 WP and it’s in the same position as EoH interaction wise. Do you build SM or SB? Do you build EoH or SG?


#31

Umm if you’re more skilled you can go WP Celeste and win that doesn’t make Eve a good early item. And no it won’t make you keep yourself alive more. You keep yourself alive by fighting back and NOT getting hit. Not by getting hit and healing with some lifesteal which is based on damage you lack.


#32

You would need to be MUCH better.

They buy CW, so there is no need of more energy, also HC still exists.

So… alpha.

That’s why I’m talking about melee heroes, not ranged ones.

The item is shit there.

For most heroes, SM.


#33

Yes you should go wp celeste. You can be very skilled with her especially using stormcrown and building her pure wp dmg you can own. Just use your abilities out of range and use your basic when you’re close. Her damage will surely keep her alive. Also your comment is relevant because wp items give cp dmg and sustain and are totally a part of the cp tree.

Every time you make a comment on my posts like that, I’m going to start responding to you in the same way.

@Guest_78

The original idea was 1 power cp item vs eve when it was brought up.

As for the being much better part, it works for me often enough even against skilled players.


#34

Hmmm conflict again in a thread. Lemme go get my popcorn until something happens again.

Im sure that the VG item statistics show that the three useless items in 5v5 is Nullwave Gauntlet, Eve, and Minion Candy.

SpellFire against Eve hurts more than SM.


#35

I don’t reply to posts based on their author but their content. Your statement made no sense how do you expect me to give an example otherwise? You literally said it’s worse early but it works if you are more skilled (???). How was my example not related? If I Smurf in t4 I can go WP Celeste and dominate them but that doesn’t make it even remotely good. If you yourself acknowledged Eve is getting outperformed by every other CP item (as in damage item not AC or CW) then whats your point? It’s just bad no matter how you see it. It doesn’t lifesteal because you deal no damage. Look at it’s description, do the math, either way it’s not good. If it’s ever used it’s lategame 3rd and mostly 4th item. Even then it’s not better than other items currently. You won’t win against your counterpart in enemy team and their the squishiest. Facing their tank warrior or ADC will be even worse. I can’t see your point honestly.


#36

Agreed. But again you’re not supposed to be getting hit as often as a CP hero usually and the burst nature of cp builds mitigates this to some degree once you get a cp dmg item or 2 in your inventory.

@Bobmax Since you gave me a realistic response to discuss I’ll provide one: et’s point to some math. If an enemy builds anything but a t3 sb or sg, you are within 30 points of cp dmg if you build eve. If they do, you are at about half their strength. If you again do not get hit often, you are looking at dluble the time to kill an opponent than if you had sg. Now again, if you aren’t playing aggressively, this isn’t a problem. Even if you are, outtrading an opponent is more worthwhile because the HALF damage you are doing is recovering some hp. If you buy a shard right after and manage to upgrade it in any reasonable time, you are now 30 points away from their shard and they’re probably not building another dps right away but if they are you will probably be 50-80 points away from their dmg…but you have lifesteal. This is not as big of a gap as you imagine and it is also not as much of a problem against cp enemies as their base dmg on abilities isn’t going to be maxed out yet and they won’t have another t3 power item yet because they’ll probably be evening out their set now. That is the advantage of having eve. And yes, against wp it doesn’t help as much because wp isn’t usually based around ratios or affected by base dmg but again, if you’re using eve you should be avoiding being in wp range and poking to gain back any lost health over time.

Edit: By the way @Bobmax, if you’d ever like to test some of my theories in action, we can always play together. You often disagree with my ideas and don’t see how they make sense and I honestly don’t have the patience to edit videos since I’m almost always mobile and rarely near a computer ( unless you don’t mind skipping ahead to the battles) but if you’d like to add me and see if what I’m saying adds up that’s fine. It’s better than going back and forth about every theory here without seeing it in action. Long as you’re NA, its my name here.


#37

See it’s not all about 1v1. With Eve you won’t damage anybody but the squishiest enemies and even they would be better at it because of straight outdamage potential. Your rotations would be worthless because you won’t secure any kills due to your lack of damage. You’d be bullied out or your jungle because of it. It’s not about healing when in lane. And by the way guess what? You heal for your 70 CP. Enemy heals for their pure CP t3 item because of CP buff. You might have a bit higher lifesteal but they’d steal heal more as they damage more. And they’d be better at securing the buff, bullying you, securing kills in rotations, fighting your roam. Those small leads in the beginning translate into a big disadvantage for you. About ADCs you’re right you shouldn’t be in range of them. True but there’s things like ganks and dives. Even then SG SF Celeste for example would have just about 10 times higher chance of killing an ADC than Eve BM Celeste (you suggested shard second so I’m guessing BM). And Eve BM literally 2 t3 items together give less CP than a single SG. Lastly I wanna remind you again the CP buff gives lifesteal. You won’t heal more than enemy mid with damage build even though you have Eve.

About your request, how do you suggest to test what you want? I have 200ms in NA but I don’t mind trying.


#38

Again, you’re not trying to kill anyone early but simply stall & farm minion waves unless it’s a clear gank. You’re also not taking into account dmg means they have to actually hit you. You’re not supposed to he rotating, you’re supposed to be laning unless it’s safe to go in jungle to steal a health or objective buff. As for bullying in jungle, sg and eve both come from heavy shard, so until one of you makes enough to get it, you won’t be bullied, giving you at least 2-3 minutes to get a lead in gold through skill, and by the time you both build t3, you either should only be in jungle to go to shop or get hesling treant. CP Buff assumes your enemy has the cp buff, and that specific enemy has targetted your lane. All the rest is extrapolating that they’re going to be better at stuff than you. Again, I’ve already said that in a mechanically even sg and eve battle, the eve user will struggle and likely lose. Ganks and dives aren’t relevant when you’re using your turret for protection. And again, a few points of cp dmg less can be mitigated in an actual fight by dodging some of the abilities they throw at you. We really have to stop doing this on every post because every time you disagree with me you completely ignore the fact that I’ve already responded to most of the things you’re saying multiple times.

As for me trying to show you, if I remember correctly you’re EU? I’m not sure. If you’ve got an NA account then it can be a crappy casual or a private or whatever. It doesn’t have to be the perfect match. I’m just trying to show you that what you think doesn’t make sense actually does based on playstyle. Btw eve plus bm leaves you minimally behind someone with an sg and you have shield pierce improving your dmg. I have no problem with discussing ideas but the discussion should be realistic. 10-40 points of dmg difference is something that skill can definitively compensate for.


#39

While using two items slots, they other player will also have a second t3 item.

It’s not that hard to hit people.


#40

That was a passing comment. I wouldn’t build bm next in most situations. As for it being hard to hit people…most cp abilities are skill shots that don’t do killing dmg until you have more than one t3 item? C’mon now. I hate doing this. If it’s a discussion, it’s a discussion. If we aren’t going to be realistic about our discussion of the game and what goes on in it, there’s little point in discussing.


#41

Even if they are skill shots, they will be hitting far more times than not, it’s not like you are hitting once.