I think 5v5 is ruining VG for me

I hate 5v5. It is all team play. Individual skill is meaningless. You are either outnumbering someone in a fight or they are outnumbering you. It is the opposite of fun.

3v3 tuning is ruint. Sacrificed on the 5v5 altar. Players like Cath rendered unplayable.

Hell, the only mode I feel like bothering with is BR. How sad is that? A deeply flawed game mode, with it’s reward for turtling poop strat. And it’s the best thing the game has to offer right now.

I’m coming to the conclusion that SEMC just isn’t very good at game design. The mechanics and controls, yes, the best, but it’s literally the only thing the game does well; this has been true for years. Look at the debacle of Onslaught … a poor PUBG imitation that demonstrates bo understanding of what make PUBG great. 5v5 is more of the same isn’t it? An imitation of better versions of that kind of game.

Sorry don’t mean to be so down on it. Just really hard to see any bright side or future to the game right now. Is that all they got? Imitating other people’s games but not quite as well?


salt mines bro.

individual skill completely shines in 5v5. so does teamwork. Play more.

otherwise just play something else.


You can push your own lane and then double gank enemies while still returning in time to your own lane. You can be far more dominant in 5v5


Probably the only correct thing you said here.

While it might be more difficult for a single player to carry the team, individual performance has a huge impact in 5v5. Especially early game.

5v5 is the standard for MOBAs and VG had a good run in 3v3. Not sure what you mean by poor game design, what would you do to improve 5v5?


Nope. Individual skill is important. But positioning and chemistry and rotation is even more important.
And, 3v3 is semi irrelevant now, its not the standard match. You shouldn’t be getting worked up over 3v3 , its a dull and boring mode that I would not mind if they were removed.

5v5 is the mode that everyone should be practicing and playing, people who are playing 3v3 are just sentimental, the tiers doesn’t even matter now honestly, as the skills in 3v3 cannot prepare you for 5v5.

5v5 requires alot of movements, which is something people are not used to, you need to be all over the place. It is definitely more challenging than 3v3. Individual skills certainly matter less obviously, its 5v5, and the best teams are not the ones with best individual skills, but the best coordination, just take a look at SKT in LOL and you can see that while individual skills play a part, the dominant team will be the ones that play “cleanly” and have great chemistry, like in the match where Afreeca stomped SKT


Can I ask you to elaborate on this? Specifically Catherine?

I think you are seeing the effects of players in vastly different skill tiers on a new map learning what to do. Are their games where I’m up 9-0 and we are losing because my teammates don’t know to stay in their lane, yes! But this is temporary. Once players figure out what’s going on and really in 3.1 when rank drops, this is going to mostly go away.

Individual skill is still hugely important. There is alot of 1v1 duels too far away for the team to help even in the mid and late game. Plus turrets are further apart meaning positioning is much more important. Map awareness is a hugely important individual skill. Right now, a skilled player filling jungle, roam, or mid (to a lesser extent) can tilt the game in their favor just by knowing where to be when. Vision management is an individual skill. Split pushing is an individual skill. What it sounds like you want is 3v3 where a late game laner can just stand under turret and farm until they hit their power spite and win every 3v3 fight.

Catherine can silence 5 heroes. She was made tankier in 2.12. With the Aegis nerf, building an AS on Cath is going to be even more impactful. She can set up ganks. Her A gets her around the map quickly which gives her more early game relevance. She is a multi-lane threat unlike some other roams.The new first item rushed (SS2000) gives cooldown that fits her.


I myself find it really bad, not in terms of individual vs team aspects like you but it’s just meh at best. I’ve played easy games, I’ve played good balanced games, and I’ve been rekt, all of it were meh. Games are supposed to copy something and make it better than the predecessors and while VG’s 5v5 is the most original, it’s nowhere close to great. Given the fact VG in all likes to insinuate they are the best, it’s pretty pathetic attempt at it. I guess that’s what happens when you rush things. Music and design are top notch though.

1 Like

I hate 5v5 because it is so laggy, screen glitches, my hero walks like stutterstep lol.


I love everything about 5v5. :stuck_out_tongue:


My only issue so far has been the minimap placement as its definitely something I’m not use to but I refuse to move it to the right as it would block more of what I need to see, I’ll get use to it eventually.


Wow holdup, i could carrying my teammates with Captain so i think it’s teamwork and no solo play

It’s actually a lot more dependant on individual skill tbh.
You as Ringo in bot lane can win your lane, but if your mid and top laner lose lanes and give away first turret, there’s nothing you can do about it.
That’s not about “team play”

Yes, late game is basically everyone rushing mid and massive teamfights, but that’s what it was in 3v3.
Positioning is faaarr more important in 5v5 than it ever was in 3v3, keeping vision control over important objectives (and in general) , and most importantly splitpushing really add more to the gameplay.

I honestly have no complaints regarding 5v5, except that they should probably move the healing flask up just a tad bit, so that it’s level with the abilities.


@idmonfish this belongs to Salt Mine

1 Like

Sucks to suck. …I’m having an absolute blast. … I’ve had plenty of games with my kestrel going 25-5… 15-1… 20-3… lol I think you need to get gud mate

1 Like

Better to flag than to tag.

I don’t think its pure salt although there is definitely some here, I think its a geniune attempt to start a discussion about 5v5 so I think it belongs here.

@Noviwan winrate data seems to suggest that Catherine is if anything a little bit strong (52% global win rate in 5v5 and 3v3 - not ruined. I think here you are blinding yourself with a preconception.

In regards to 5v5 right now individual player impact is huge - because I have a lot of prior knowledge I have a 93% winrate in 5v5 playing 80% of those games as roam. I expect individual player impact to decrease as overall player knowledge increases, a meta forms and 5v5 MMRs get more accurate (which will allow matchmaking to tighten). But thats the nature of a team game - individuals should only be part of the story.

Personally I am loving 5v5 VG as it seems are many others, I am sorry you are not.


I personally think the games drag on a little too long and wish they accelerated the early and mid game a little bit.

Although, overall 5v5 is an improvement over 3v3 by a lot.

At least in the games I’ve been in, a lot of that seems to be due to people not really having any coherent idea of what to do at the beginning and therefore being more cautious than necessary. I’m sure that will improve as people start to understand how to invade, where to place vision, etc.

The laning phase is a drawn out. It takes a little too long to get built up. I don’t mind a longer end game, or even middle game. However, they initial phase takes to long as it is currently designed, and people tend to force the mid and late game prematurely.

I don’t disagree. I feel like it’s hard to farm in the early game, but I’ve been attributing that to my unfamiliarity with how to accomplish that. (It took me quite a while in 3v3 to get really good at farming.)