Right now our team either wins the draft by a snowball or loses out hard.
There are just too many strong heroes and not enough bans to make it okay.
Just now Reza Lyra Malene and Kinetic were banned. Which are all justified bans. Just like Kensei Kestrel Grace and several others.
I get horrible snowball matches on either side. We get smashes 27 kills vs 1 or the other way around and its mostly because of draft and just double bans.
Any brilliant ideas lying around on how to deal with this and your allies picking ringo first…
The answer to your question is “good counter-picking” and “appropriate counter-strategy” … Malene, for instance, can be neutralized with other mages who can out-range her, and Kensei can be pressured early to keep him from becoming a late-game powerhouse. Other heroes are harder to do this with, but I’m sure people around here have some answers that will work for you. Maybe that’s a better thread to start? Pick a hero and ask for counter-play tips… or even, “what’s the best early game comp?” or “how to survive an early-game comp?” … As it is, I think this thread is maybe too unspecific (and by your last sentence, a little salty), and will just be a confusing discussion, if it takes off at all.
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Ringo decent bottom lane, wait till you get people playing CP Kestrel top lane… nice pick dude, that’ll go well.
Think in what heroes from all this list of broken ones have a hard counter and don’t ban them, let the enemy pick them as they are broken heroes and they will pick them and then destroy them with their counters. This can be applied with them too in a sense that don’t ban the most op one if another hero of the list hard counters him.
Made this in the Broken Baron era (let them pick baron, then pick idris, gg).
Isn’t is good to have a lot of very strong heroes?
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This was CP ringo mid… I know wp bot is okay…
Well my problem is I can’t be at all spots at once…
So when the enemy team wins draft hard we are done for…
I have never been countered hard as Malene or Lyra. And any Kensei can do well too.
People don’t communicate in draft they just pick random batshit stuff. Knowing hero counters doesn’t help there…
6 bans would do the trick in most cases.
They actually buffed Kensei… He is even beyyer than last patch
Kensei is balanced. Capacitor Plate sounds like a good item on him, and it is, but his base defenses make him squishy and considering he has to frontline and be a warrior with ramping damage he does poor into poke comps due to his predictable movements. When he is fed he is good just like many other heroes and with 2 kills going to the late game he will excel.
This is from personal experience, most recently being this morning where I accidentally forgot about Kensei and let enemy side choose him but then I played BF and did well against the Kensei at all stages of the game. He wasn’t even that fed but I could feel his damage ramping up as the game went on. The Kensei was also one of the best Ronas in NA so he isn’t bad at melee heroes.
Going into the discussion, every time you play on B side just do some throw bans and think about which two OP heroes you would want, obviously you are going to have to leave one of them open so they can take it as their first pick. But they have one and you have two. Good thing.
On A side you can get cheesy and not ban at all if you feel like there are actually too many OP heroes (which there aren’t) and have 3 of them while they have 2. Other than that Grace is a must ban on this side because if you get Reza or Kensei it won’t matter if they have Grace. Ranged carries do well against Grace at all times of the game except early game but melee heroes who are not fed at all will do poorly with her throughout the entire game. Midlane mages should not be a priority ban unless if you have clear intentions of not wanting to play Malene then ban her just in case because even if she doesn’t do any damage she has so many tools that her kit is annoying to deal with. Reza isn’t OP this patch and wasn’t OP last patch either. People fail to realize that he is an assassin, and an assassin is supposed to take out one person extremely quickly. He is played best at top solely because every bot laner tends to be squishy. And if Reza gets fed then obviously its GG that applies to every fairly balanced hero. Bests counterpick to Reza is Glaive, who is a pretty versatile hero regardless.
Lyra should be a ban or pick at all times she lacks a good counter. Kinetic has good damage output as well but suffers from being squishy. Playing Glaive, Koshka, and even Taka will make her fall hard.
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i would suggest banning heros who can snowball well lile grace or reza… or joule…
even kestrel who can sneak attack…
but if you have bad draft, that means your team doesn’t know which heros counters whom.
i don’t really see a need in banning lyra… she is so squishy in both paths. and our team have no problem eliminating lyra.
and also it’s important to pick a right captain for the team. if you have enemy rona and krul. lyra or cath even grace works well for your team as they can stun/block dash attack.
have jungler like fortress who can use his ult on enemies like kestrel or taka.
if you enemies like malene, celeste and vox… reza is a counter…
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Hmmm kensei shouldn’t be that big of a problem unless you have a double sniper team. Lyra isn’t very strong either.
I suggest a backline support with a sniper and a melee, that should help you out. Try adagio, he is really good right now.
Yes stop banning Kensei please 
IMO the only big Permabans should be Grace and Kensei this patch. Bans like Malene are mainly because people suck at adapting.
Ban Grace because of how strong and flexible she is, and Ban Kensei in soloQ because you can’t rely on your allies to shut him down. Seriously, if a Kensei is mechanically proficient and is very confident, they can go bot, get camped by the jungler and cath, and STILL go 126/7/21. You need team co-ordination to shut him down, so I see why people don’t want to see him.
Kinetic is pretty strong, but not OP. Ban her if you can’t pick her early.
Don’t waste bans on Reza unless literally nobody on your team can play him. I’ve seen him slip through drafts without even being touched. Same for Lyra IMO.
Kestrel is MAYBE worth a ban A side. If you’re picking something pretty late game first pick, then banning her is a decent move.
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Step 1: Ban Grace
Step 2: Ban anything else you NEED to ban. Just make sure you ban grace.
Step 3: Get some common sense into your brain
Step 4: Counter pick as appropriate
Step 5: Secure a really good mid laner(for if you don’t you’ll probably lose the game)
Step 6: Draft with common sense
Step 7: If you lose the game then it just proves you have no common sense in drafting
Step 8: HONESTLY GET SOME COMMON SENSE
Step 9: I’m done with this
Step 10: Stop playing VG until you chill your bones.
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High tier play is all about Countering your counters. Using Celeste as an example, she’s squishy and easy to dive. So as a celeste player, can you stun a hero diving on you? no, I don’t mean after the dive, when they already chunked a whole tonn of health, I mean mid-dive, before they even touch you.
Every hero has their weaknesses (counters). So it’s all about turning those weaknesses into your strengths, by finding ways to shut-down the very heroes that are suppose to counter you.
there currently isn’t any Overly OP heroes that don’t have counters. I haven’t had a “snowball” match . . . well… since just beginning. Any Snowball matches are usually due to a vast difference in skill, such as bad MM or Smurfing. Obviously we’re not going to count AFK, Feeders and Trolls, because that’s inherently a tilted bias toward the team who’s got the numbers advantage / disadvantage.
So Assuming all your matches are a Fair match up, just keep improving your counter play. By counter play, I mean COUNTERing Counters. not just the obvious counters. The one’s that rely on pure mechanical skill, itemization, tactical back-doors, rat strats, etc.
If I want to ban snowballers my list is 8+ and that is exactly my problem. Bans are a safety net.
Several heroes on average aren’t a problem. But fighting a person who has mastered a meta hero will be hell.
I had a kinetic whom I could kill easily but she slaughtered my entire team over and over again. She went 26/6/9 I took her down 4x but thats not enough to slow her down.
I had a kensei the other day whom we jumped on 4v1 and he got away with his Ult passing through a thick wall. Kensei is very very hard to pin down.
Lyra and Grace are God tier.
Reza and Idris and Kestrel are very strong.
A good Malene shits on anyone too, I can very often 1v2 top and win that lane war too.
If the entire draft isn’t full of counterpicks where your allies listen/are intelligent enough to counterpick themselves you are done for…
At poa lvl at least.
To quote an old friend of mine; “If everything’s OP nothing’s OP.” There are plenty of good picks to go through a whole draft atm, the only way you lose a draft that badly is if you all pick your comfort picks and ignore counterpicking.
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true…
all the points you made, I experienced as well…
but along the way, my team and I figured out how to counter which hero…
some times, your enemy team may have the strongest opponent… let’s say lyra, grace, kensei, baron and bf.
sometimes, It takes your team to understand each other and their playstyle… you can use cath to keep stunning, samual to kite, bapstise to dish out and stun.
it doesn’t work all the time, but it requires team understanding and how their playstyle works so you can eliminate…
i rarely soloq these days since I found a team I could synergise well now… even when we are lacking counters and in the end we still manage to win…
I only soloque and there lies my problem.
We lost the last match because my ally decided he would go play adagio top lane instead of captain. With top lane already filled.
Gg right there. Game is done before it even started…
well, if he decides to top lane… then someone else must fill in the position of being a captain, your teammates are being stubborn sticking to one role or fixed role. You can’t always be a mid laner every time you solo queue or party.
He was semi last pick with the only captain hero. Refused to talk