How come games are so short?


#1

I was playing League the other day, and I really noticed for the first time (as a newer player) how much longer and more complicated it was than VG. Obviously the two are massively different, but fundamentally the same.

I also thought (as I have been thinking for a while) that most of the game I must have been massively behind in gold or levels, because it took forever to build. I’m so used to being given gold by the handfuls from VG. This is one of the reasons why those games are taking 35 minutes, and VG is taking 15. The gold is different, and seems not as generous. Their objectives are bigger and stronger, and so is their map. All those things are making time for actual clear early/mid/late game stages that are more than 3 minutes long.

I personally like a game where I can spare a moment to take a look at the enemy build and my build and compare without my team pinging me out of base because we can’t afford to waste a second. There is some time to breathe in casual games, which is why I play casual.

Why are VG games so short? Is this an intentional direction they’ve moved in over the years, or is it an oversight and an unfortunate result of balancing? I think they could easily move in some of these directions to lengthen gameplay so every match is not Blitz without changing the essence of VG.

Do players want longer games? Would VG benefit from this with all the shorter gamemodes they also have?


#2

I agree, matches are too short currently.

They worked really hard for well over a year to get standard 3v3 matches to average 20-25 minutes, which felt perfect (at least to me), with snowballing at a minimum (as long as both teams had a decent comp). In trying to make sure 5v5 matches didn’t go too long (I heard that 5v5 matches were originally about 45 minutes in early testing, but I’m not a PBE tester, so that’s not firsthand info), they went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far the other way, and now we have 15 minute matches and snowball city.


#3

Honestly i would love 45 minute matches. One of the biggest things is how vg handles ambient gold , and exp after death.


#4

vg is a mobile game, so it makes sense that games are shorter. however, in 5v5, there is no real anti snowball mechanic so games could end pretty easily.
some concerns with longer games is battery, longer games mean you’d have to make sure you’re sufficiently charged to be prepared for a longer game, minor problem but you knoe, mobile games could be played on the go so not everyone could imstantly charge
imo, all we need is an anti-snowball measure, and games will be much more fine. my ranked games end either 13-16 mins or ~24+ mins, in between is a miracle, but 20-25 would be the best game length imo.
also, i’m not sure but i remember reading some time ago that riot also wanted to shorten games a bit back then, not sure if they did it or are doing it still

also ye gold isn’t as easy to come by in league, and items aren’t really cheap so dw you aren’t doing anything wrong.


#5

Yeah lol heavily punishes you for dying


#6

Vg needs a comeback mechanic, games are either under 15 or 25+ minutes for me. Once one team gets ahead then it’s almost impossible to get back.


#7

Blackclaw ghostwin teleport boots back doors split pushing. Please let me know if i missed a comeback mechanic


#8

None of them are comeback mechanics. The dragons: when the enemy is so far ahead (snowballing) you won’t have any chance of getting one of those, quite the opposite, they increase the snowballing. Teleport boots: for that you would need an open crystal, which is impossible if the enemy team snowballs. Split pushing: then the enemy can just push one lane and win or do the same and as they are ahead beat you in all three lanes.


#9

Really you don’ have a chance at the dragon you mean to tell me no hero can bide their time and snipe a dragon?
As for teleport boots you don’t need a open crystal just a viable path to turn the tide of a fight in the right hero.

Split pushing is a mechanic that you really have to time correctly, and be ready to dip back if it isn’t working


#10

Are you part of the off topic sub forum? I wrote about league and how it’s more complex, etc.

VG simply needs to grow to make games longer. It’s nothing to do with balancing. It’s the most balanced moba of all the moba’s currently out.

League has 18 levels. A huge supermarket of items and plenty of hero choice. You can play 40+ minute games and have plenty to do. VG doesn’t have the diversity to last over 30 minutes. It’s basically rinse and repeat after every hero hits level 12.

By making games longer using “balancing” of minions, turrets and dragons, etc. All you’re doing is prolonging the same rinse and repeat tactics.

Grow the game through more content. More heroes. More items. Maybe even the controversial 4th hero ability. More diverse jungle. Etc.


#11

I think vainglory is best with 10-20 mins/match (casual), and in ranked or competitive scene such as tournament, maybe up to 30 mins. Why? Coz this mobile game, and we need some efforts to play this game. We need to spent some of our time, battery of our mobile, and the most important one : reliable and stable internet connection. Game is created to entertain us, make us happy, thats why we dont need more than 25 mins/match to decide we are the winner or not…

For me, snowball cant be removed in any moba, for example LoL, dota2, etc. But vainglory mechanics is pretty simple and slightly different with other mobas : dont make many mistakes, focus on objectives, and if the match is balanced, your team must win the last teamfight, coz it will decide you will win or not… Correct me if I’m wrong :slight_smile:


#12

I see most replies are talking about match length, so I wanted to touch on the gold procurement in particular.

I find that in Vainglory, you’re not as heavily punished for not last-hitting and having poor creeper score. The ability to stay within a decent strength and level range despite maybe not farming as much is nowhere near as detrimental as it is in League. In League it’s far too easy to fall behind everyone else even if you whiff a few last shots - repeat this for a few minion waves and you’ll really begin to feel how greatly it affects your ability to contribute, and that effect can snowball into late game if you’re not careful.

Also I believe that League rewards careful planning as much as it does aggression, whereas Vainglory doesn’t really share the same. Yes, of course the things I’ve said they are beneficial in Vainglory, but it’s just too easygoing, I guess?


#13

Growth through time, and community support. Both of which VG is a little bit lacking.

I’m not currently part of the off-topic group because it was just meme spam, but if there’s good content there I might join again.


#14

Sorry but I totally disagree, lose a couple of healing treants in top lane and ward their laner rotate a couple of times with the jungle and your two levels behind despite having not missed a minion.


#15

You don’t have to apologize for disagreeing. Your experience is obviously different than mine.


#16

Ahh so you are facing a situation of the jungler being lazy if that is the case do their job for them


#17

Jungler being lazy?

No i main top lane and it’s usually a constant battle to claim the healing minion (at least it should be). The opposition also have the luxury of rotating with their jungler to take ambient gold and experience.

I’d be suprised if their not 1/2 levels ahead by mid game simply because they’ve got the luxury of a 2v1 available to them.


#18

I honestly don’t understand how you’re having such difficulty maintaining control over your healing treant. If anything, as top lane, you should be even more focused on controlling your side as you own the shop. :man_shrugging:


#19

No. This sounds good on paper but with the way meta and jungle design is this isn’t true. Jungler usually starts in bot lane. Clear faster as you can’t even hit your minions if you’re not Adagio or I guess Samuel. Then they go straight to your jungle. You can’t contest that unless your team helps which weakens mid. Then they clear their entire bot jungle together. Already huge gold and especially exp advantage. Then they keep doing it and the gap is only becoming larger. Even if you’re a mechanical god you won’t have much chance to win against their bot 1v1 due to the big disadvantage in items and levels. But on top of that their jungler is constantly there for 2v1 AND they have Wp buff while you don’t. Even CP if they’re invading properly and successfully. So actually they are the ones controlling jungle shops (bot laners).

That’s why if someone is broken as Taka was a few updates ago it’s so impactful. He was so broken without offense that he built only def and could win 1v2 while enemy top is struggling so hard as usual. Winning top lane is rare but you completely shut down most of their team because top laners are usually very strong in 1v1ing bot if they have the same lvl and items.


#20

The previous version of this post is a reflection of a misunderstanding of the games mechanics and match progression at a higher skill tier. Thank you @Glowarm and @Bobmax for giving me a better perspective of how the higher skill tiers work.