If that’s the case, then he is only furthering the problem of utility heroes being given far too much base damage, making traditional bruisers even WORSE
Not always, the difference is that their damage doesnt scale, so in late game (or even mis game) they are there as a second roam or frontliner to protect the carry and rely heavily on snowballing the early game. They are more team reliant and depend on a late game hypercarry to deal the damage. They have different jobs, problem is when those utility bruisers have the damage of an offensive one (like GJ), something San Feng doesnt. In fact most utility heroes have more overall damage than him, he just tanks in late game.
He isnt the closest to a guaranteed win, though i think a TB Nerf would be good (It would nerf both Gwen and Baron, who are rn the strongest bot laners).
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All new warriors are designed to build no damage (utility) or very low damage (1 or 2 items), whereas classic warriors need to build 3 or 4 damage items, making them really squishy compared with the new ones, and more vulnerable to CC, that’s why classic warriors now are focused in splitpushers or in 1v1 matchups, because in teamfights they are useless, reason why Glaive and Rona will always be in disadvantage in terms of viability compared with the new warriors.
Warriors who require building damage are no longer viable as a concept, their balance is really difficult (due to how vulnerable are they to CC), which means that they will be most times in the weaker side of the meta.
Balancing Baron is really hard: he was weak and just by adding him 5% more damage he became OP? No, his problem is TB, the buff it got was just absurd, and synergies well with Gwen and Baron, so I would say that is TB what needs the nerf instead of Baron
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This is what SEMC needs to look into. HOW can they make traditional warriors viable without giving them an excessive amount of base damage like captains have?
The reason he was so weak earlier was his early game was crap in a turret seiging meta not cause he lacked damage. Now that his early range is good, you can’t really punish him much early and will eventually get to the point where he can obliterate anyone.
@Guest_78 Baron is then most broken hero atm and he’s much stronger than Gwen so I don’t think a TB nerf would be enough.
Btw do y’all find bot laners generally weak? Apart from Baron, Gwen and Kin
Before that buff, his late game damage was not good compared with the meta bot heroes, so TB was what made him OP. Also, I don’t find Baron as powerful as you are describing him.
Edit: apart from Baron, Kinetic and Gwen, the rest of bot laners are just trash
Baron is nowhere near being the most op hero. He can still be pressured relatively easily, specially now that the jungler isn’t with him 24/7 and can’t receive gold from jungle. Gwen has proven to be both stronger and more consistent at high elo, so I would argue she is objectively better. One problem I see with him is that top laners, despite being in 1v1 and in an advantaged position they don’t pressure.
Yes, bot laners outside from Gwen, Baron and kinetic are weak.
Baron outdamages and outranges Gwen the only thing Gwen has thats going for her is her stun. You can’t really pressure baron early either, he has the longest dash out of wp carries so long as you don’t miss cs eventually he will get his items. 2v1 meta didn’t suit him anyway because his early pressure was bad. The 1v1 meta suits him much better
I’m a Rona fan, but making her CC immune during Red Mist would be overpowered. It would be better torework the damage, rework the fortified health, or remove the the movement debuff. Throwing a stun on her has always been the counterplay, whether Rona was up or down in the meta. She’s not strong enough in the other ways right now, but CC shutting down her ability to kill a team has always been part of her play.
Making Foesplitter last longer is a good idea through. It also might help to change the way her mortal strike works, either letting all her basic attacks apply it while foespliter is up, or applying it on her the second activation of foesplitter then refreshing it on basic attacks as long of she keeps landing them before it fades.
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The core problem with warriors is that the game has shifted so that kits are more important than items. I used to play a lot of Rona and Alpha, both of whom could be built with 2 or even 3 defenses and still do their job. A lot of what made older warriors work has been nerfed. Defenses were nerfed, and ramping damage was nerfed, which makes it harder both for a hero to survive, and for them to benefit from staying alive longer.
Think about how many items it would take to get damage mitigation similar to what San Feng has innately. With one item he gets enough armor and shield for about 50% mitigation. It would take around around another 3 items to give mitigation similar to what he gets with his fortified health. Armor and shield have diminishing returns (it takes 100 to half damage, an additional 200 to half it again, and an additional 400 to half it again, so you very quickly reach a point where adding more does not help) but fortified health, barriers, and the flat damage reductions some heroes get do not diminish. This means that heroes without damage mitigation in their kit can’t possibly compete with those who have it.
For ranged carries it’s not a big deal, but when you play heroes who need to jump into the enemy team, it becomes a giant liability if your only damage mitigation is from items.
It used to be better before defensive stats were reduced, but nerfing items hurt heroes who relied exclusively on items more than it hurt the ones who rely on their kits.
I think it might help a bit to look at the costs of tier 2 and 3 defenses. Looking at winning builds, defenses are no nearly as common as they used to be, and lots of winning builds never build one defense. Cost-benefit favors damage right now over defense, and that meta doesn’t allow any room for traditional warriors. There are good reasons for not letting defenses get too out of control, but the cost side could be addressed. Tier 1 armor and shields ought to drop back down to 250, and Reflex Block, Warmail, Kinnetic Shield, and Coat of plates should all drop down to 600. The idea is that since so many heroes don’t need to invest in defense at all, those who need it shouldn’t need to wait that long or delay the rest of their build too much to get it. And since armor and shield have diminishing returns, they veryquickly reach a point where even if they were free they’d be a waste of a slot.
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Btw I think we need to take into consideration the implications of San’s kit. I feel he is best played in mid lane. Why? Because he can easily tank projectiles which is an easy activator for his A which mitigates the risk of the channel like you mention, so he can consistently delete the enemy laner while being overall pretty risk free himself. Also, since he is in mid lane he can have a captain with him most of the time, so generally if you have someone like Lance, you can combo the CC with his B so you don’t even have to rely on San’s A to land the B. So far San looks like a pretty safe character. High defense, his A can counter ambushes, and his B has a HUGE aoe, so it covers entire minion waves while still bolstering his defenses. Keep in mind most good mid laners are immobile mages, so if he hits you with the A, you’re eating ALL of that damage, so you’re most likely gonna be in the red zone with a single punish just for being a mage. Even if you are mobile or have boots, you are forced to run away from the side or past San, which usually means you are running away from your turret and into his allies. That puts you at risk for more CC or an easy ambush (or both). San punishes mages a bit TOO harshly so far just the way he is and mages are not the only heroes affected by him. Baron is also punished just for having a kit designed for AOE. Sure, heroes like Grumpjaw can counter him by being tanky with pretty high base stats, but Baron would just have to play much more passively. With San, he can just be in the middle of his minion wave and A when a minion is low and punish Baron right then and there. It is not really the most fun interaction to play against. He forces you to play awkwardly and against the way your hero is designed to play which I don’t think is very healthy. Now in team fights, San is pretty much a brick wall. With all of his defenses it’s better to just go past him altogether, but if his whole team is behind him during an engagement and he uses his A, then the enemy team’s mages or aoe heroes are forced to back off or else he can just jump on a mage and stun them. However, if attacks are already being thrown out, he can just use his A and take a hit which is likely to happen, especially if he is on top of someone, and stun a carry or mage where if his team is coordinated, can capitalize on that. Sure he may be team reliant in team fights, but that is not a balancing factor. Fortress is EXTREMELY team reliant, but it does not change how strong he can be. San Feng can snowball TOO easily and forces matchups into a rock paper scissors kind of situation, which I believe has no place in a MOBA unlike something like Overwatch.
TL;DR: San Feng can influence a game far more than just hitting big numbers, especially in the mid lane, but in an unhealthy way due to punishing hero design rather than the player themselves.
I think the scaling for armor and shield on Bruisers needs to increase by 10 and 5 respectively. That would go from 85/60 to 95/65 while Roam would be 100/75. Leave the assassins at 85/60 and ranged at 75/55. Just acknowledge that there are 4 classes of heroes based on armor/shield values. The bruisers need to be able to soak more incoming damage during 5v5 fights. If you pull 1% out of GJ and 5% perk out Joule it should closely balance out.
Mages are with their captains, so is not that easy to reach them. With their range they can publish you by stunning you once your A is activated. San Feng is squishy if he has no FH (only 2100 health), so they can just poke you while you are farming. San Feng clear speed in lane is bad compared with mages, which will give them time to attack you.
Another reason why San Fran can’t be played in Mid: he doesn’t scale well into late game, so your team will only have one source of damage: your Bot laner; if he dies, your team won’t have anything to kill the enemy.
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All I can say with Sang Fen is while I do think his B is busted even out of early game as cp, I kinda understand why his stats are so good: he’s kind of a sitting duck in the middle of teamfights of you catch him off cooldown. Like alpha or krul, his abilities are all about approach, no escape really besides a well placed A, and his attack range is meh, making him a simple target to team on. And his B ofc tickles late game.
Yeets is just op because of his yank speed, mainly.
Reza didn’t need any buff really lol.
No, he isn’t viable in mid at all. Just because he can tank doesn’t make him a good mid laner, GJ can tank too, lance can tank too and they aren’t mid laners. Despite him having an easier time activating the empowered A, he can still be cced and the enemy roam can easily prevent you from killing the mid laner.
The B ability isn’t strong enough to instakill a mid laner, and after that you are left with no protection (relatively long cooldowns in early) to tank and farm, making him an easy target to bully. His bad lane clear compared to any mid laner doesn’t help either.
No, without the FH he is the squishiest of the bruisers with the same Hp as a ranged carry. His A doesn’t allow him to scape ganks, in fact it’s extremely to gank as he has no scape whatsoever.
That deals 50% less damage to lane minions, which coupled with its relatively high cooldown for an ability he depends on to trade in lane makes his laning phase against mages horrible.
With long range and a roam protecting them.
Less damage than what you will received as a result of being left with no scape other than Boots. He has a good burst, but his overall DPS isn’t specially good compared to a carry’s DPS.
Why, just retreat to your turret. I don’t get why would anyone try to scape passing you instead of going to their turret.
But why? Everyone just retreats to their turret.
In teamfight he is good to counter them, but that’s because he tanks, not because he kills them, same as baron, he is designed to counter burst oriented heroes, which mages are in general.
If I have to chose as Baron between fighting a GJ or a San Feng, I would always pick San Feng. In fact San Feng isn’t even the hardest counter, not even close.
That’s what he is supposed to be.
If he jumps to your mage, peel for him, kill San Feng. You mage is supposed to be in the back line, so if he jumps onto him he is an a terrible position and becomes an easy target to burst down even with the FH. Also, the range of the A isn’t that long.
That’s what his A is for, to stop an attack and counter attack.
Literally pick any hero with a mobility ability. With that the only chance he will have to beat you, if you don’t hit him while in his A, is in teamfight.
Remember pateto against krul and Taka? Or reim against any melee? It wasn’t a different situation, in fact San Feng is less oppressive than any of those were.
Catherine with her B also punishes hero designs, but no one seems to complain.
Edit: fixing some mistakes for the corrector: tanks → ganks.
Edit 2: by putting San Feng in mid, not only he isn’t viable and easy to snowball there but you also lose the CP AoE hypercarry you would normally have in mid, which will eventually kill your team late game as your team simply would lack damage.
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Rip mobile users, that reply took three lengthy swipes just to pass it completely while it covered probably four worths of my phone screen… 
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Writing it was hell too (I’m on mobile). It covers 5 of my screens.