I’ve played 3 games 3030303030
I play Vainglory to have fun. To me, personally, melee bruiser/assassin characters are the most fun. The bruiser class has the greatest variety in playstyles, pretty much full stop. Glaive and playing around his afterburn, Rona and her group stacking, Krul and his 1v1, Kensei and his tank stacking, ect. Compared to them, what’s the difference in playstyle for mages? It’s literally just landing skillshots (Celeste and Skaarf). For snipers, it’s just AAing and keeping out of danger, while putting pressure into the enemy front/backline (Ringo and Vox). I get that this is oversimplification but I’m sure you can get my point. Bruisers are INTERESTING, and generally play the active role in a game, whereas mages and snipers are more reactive.
When I play ranked, my teammates literally don’t let me play what I want. I’ll ask for Kensei and I’ll get Baron. I don’t blame them, because whenever we casual, Kensei gets out AAed by Gwen at Melee range (Note: Pre mid patch hotfix. Probably won’t happen anymore.). I do have time to play them and it’s usually a massive disappointment.
Captains with high base damage (Lorelai, Ardan, Flicker, Yeets) have replaced bruisers. Because of the defence changes, their extremely high base damage which went unnerfed now is much more effective in the mid-late game (alongside dragonblood). What you see in ranked nowadays is 3 captains continuously trying to shut down the enemy carries while they cower in fear and try to reach their eventual late game. If any characters should be in that ‘Bullying these squishies until they cry’ role it should be Bruisers and Assassins. The thing is, Captains are more effective early, equally as effective mid and scale better into the late game because they build full tank.
There’s been a constant decline in melee bruiser heroes in particular. Glaive used to be a beast who could 1v3 a game if they got even slightly ahead and knew what they were doing. Now, he’s a gank/peel bot who only gets kills if the enemy team messes up really bad.
If I think something is bad I’m going to point it out.
Her being overpowered wasn’t my sole complaint. It wasn’t even my main complaint. My complaint was that Kinetic has the advantages of a bruiser while also being ranged, which essentially nullifies all bruisers in her presence unless they’re absurdly overpowered. The only thing she’s missing is sustain but she doesn’t need it if she’s not getting hit. It’s terrible game design, and she really needs to lose
- Her high base damage
- Her dash stun on B overdrive (THIS ONE.)
- Her range (Even more. Vox levels.)
to be truly ‘not complete, utter garbage’ in my eyes. If she becomes unplayable because all people use her for is dashing in, stunning a target and shredding them instantly, so be it. I never want to see her in my games again.
Her CP path is fine though.
Don’t.
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What does gold trickle have to do with reverting a bad change about CSing? The CSing change was bad. It made the game like ML and AoV (I enjoyed AoV so not completely trash talking). If you can’t CS either learn to or don’t lane. I play every hero in the game, except some of the new ones as I literally haven’t played them ever, but my true love is warriors. Warriors first then assassins. Yet I still think this change was really bad so they had to revert it.
To be fair, that range nerf was huge, it was not only -0.4 range, but it also put her in line with other ranged heroes, which is quite important as usually those range differences in ranged heroes determine whether or not you get bullied, for examplke adagio and Saw, with a difference of 0.2 range Adagio can completely shut down Saw, imagine a difference of 0.4 which is what kinetic had.
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Some characters have more difficult laning phases, such as non-captain melees.
These characters will lose too much money in the laning phase from last hits that they won’t be able to get (without losing a large amount of health of their life).
These characters won’t be played (because let’s be honest here, the jungle gives the same amount of gold as leeching mid lane and that isn’t enough money to fund a damage carry.)
Actually, melee laners usually have more cs than the ranged ones.
Like I said before. Laning as a melee is way harder than what it really should be.
End of story
Talking about farming in lane, I think the removal of the “freebie gold” is ok.
This change to me:
- Increases the skill requirement to be a laner.
- Puts laners in a position whether to stay in range to farm or move out of range from enemies that are poking them even when they are under the turret. This makes losing minions to turrets an actual loss rather than a minor inconvenience.
- Makes laners do more poking to bring the enemy minions closer to them. This makes them more interactive because it put them at a position where they can be traded with or ganked. So, an increase in the importance of positioning.
However, I think this change to the farm doesn’t solve a few problems I think 5v5 have.
- It puts melee laners at an overall disadvantage if they are not as tanky as Captain heroes used as a laner.
- Doesn’t really shape the top/bot lane meta (their technically the same due to the mirroring).
- Puts pressure on the mid lane to farm as fast and effectively as possible because the side lanes will fall quite quickly.
I think what SEMC needs to do is to mimic League’s settings. By that I mean:
- Top lane - Exclusively bruisers that want to 1v1 and farm.
- Mid lane - Mages. (They’ve achieved this somewhat).
- Bot lane - Two man lane with a sniper and the Captain.
- Jungle - One man farming and ganker.
I think the changes they need to make may be:
- Alter the jungle drastically. Mirror the map as in ‘mirror it exactly.’ By that, I meant that buffs on one side of the map in both jungles are the same. This will certainly force certain types of laners into the lanes, be it because of builds or compatibility.
- In relation to the above change, modify the double bear to a single monster camp that can give a buff specifically for melee heroes with some modifications so that it isn’t as favorable for Captain heroes.
- Alter the dragon pits in relation to the above suggestion. Meaning, put the dragon pits in the middle of the river rather than have them attached to one side of the river and then give them purpose early before they spawn the dragons (which to me enable mid to late game pushes).
~ For Top Lane (put Blackclaw’s pit here), give it something that enables vision since the idea is to force one laner into Top and thus they make an excellent target for gankers.
~ For Bot Lane (put Ghostwing’s Pit here), put something that’s for the junglers. Something that gives them the advantage to clear the jungle only on their side of the map. The idea is to enable them to clear fast and go gank faster. Additionally, this buff is so that the previously mentioned double bear change buff goes to top laners. - Again related to the first suggestion, put extra minions in the bot lane so that teams are forced to send two members or be pushed. Aside from shifting emphasis to the bot lane, it’s also to out hyper carries regardless of type in the bot lane. Mid lane would be for carries that are a bit more utility based and can make use of the Crystal Orb.
- A more controversial change - remove Ambient Gold and put into an item. Yes, bring back the original Ironguard Contract but make it so it is weaved into the Captain items. Kind of like League’s stuff as well. Make it little but sufficient for Captains and has a much shorter range for the passive to trigger, maybe as long as the midrange carries. This forces them to stay near their bot laner almost all of the time essentially.
That’s all I can think of for now to make lanes have specific type of heroes to go to those lanes.
Feel free to criticise with your thoughts and suggestions.
They tried doing it in the beta, and from what ive heard, it was a complete disaster.
Well, I did expect that. It is a change I was hesistant to put, hence the controversial change.
Maybe I’ll ask them when a dev stream comes by.
Its not really semc that can persuade the players to play melee laners in top. Cuz they will still just choose ranged to have a advantage over the melee laner.
Maybe change the minions to have more def to ranged AAs than melee?
Idk, im not one to comment on map changes.
SEMC can’t tell players when to melee in lane but their balancing directly affects it. I mean look at the couple patches Rona and Glaive dominated bot, when Grump dominated top, or even when Reim was capable of mid.
The main issue that trumps all is that players like ranged carries. They like to do all the damage and feel cool doing it. SEMC sees that and their balancing is biased toward it
SEMC has never been affected by what hereos the comunity enjoy, if it wasnt the case we wouldnt have gotten cp taka, BF wouldnt have been destroyed, and CP Vox would have been a thing a lot earlier than it did. What destroyed melees wasnt people preferences affecting the balancing.
CP Vox has always been meta since release, many newer users enjoy the simplicity of the point and kill assassins that only now seem terrible because of more complex and dangerous heroes, and BF was stripped of a beautiful kit because of community complaints. I don’t know if you remember but more people were complaining than people who are still reminiscing.
SEMC blatantly biases their balancing. Sure CP Vox took a while to come back to S-tier ( he never left A-tier ), but he was literally only brought back because we missed it. Rona was brought back to her former glory as a “parting gift”. Hell, they created an entire hero based off of lore because the community went crazy until they did.
Thats a lie, it wasnt until 2.12 where it was considered to be meta again.
It was because of the beta. In update 2.11, the one before his dead, the complains were against varya, not BF. Also, and his rose trail? who asked for that?
Who?
Huh, I didn’t know that. Which hero was it?
Based on what I recall of the lore, the only ones worth mentioning that could have been harped on to make a hero out of was Franky from lore pieces that mention him and Anka in Kinetic’s lore series Road to Rebllion No.5.
I don’t think it was Malene because she was slated to join Blackfeather and Phinn but was never clearly stated when she would do so.
2.11 Vox had something like a 55% win rate. Granted he was primarily WP, but that was more of a result of Varya having almost a 70% win rate and being able to do “CP Vox” better than Vox could, not a lack of viability.
Varya was broken on release and was subject to most of the complaints but both paths of BF hovered in the mid 50s, in terms of win rate. He still had plenty of complaints.
Also, I count Malene. That is more of a matter of opinion than actual argument, however. I just remember the constant request for Malene for multiple updates prior to her release.
It wasnt only on 2.11, since 1.18 he was dead due to the removal of cp damage on his AA. So its had been over a year since he was killed. Before 2.12, his use rate (CP Vox) was none existent in high elo, and his win rate under 50% by far, not even druid played him, and he was known fro his cp vox.
She was on development before the requests, she had been on development for over 2 years.
I guess we can all agree with that the balancing is straight garbage. They cant buff the melees effective and allow high skilled players to become a monster.
What i mean by the last part is that the overall hero per say BF is balanced, but due to a skilled player, BF becomes a monster. Rewarding the player and not the hero itself.
Too bad that it isnt true for Vg.
Fiora is a great LoL hero, balanced and easily countered. But she becomes a threat when shes played by a skilled player. I think its better that way.
Hopefully I wasnt that confusing
Well, Malene it is eh?
To behonest, I wasn’t a fan of reddit and the old forums for a good time.
May have missed the harping for Malene.
Personally, I don’t really care. Players harp all the time and it leads nowhere fast in my opinion.
I think CP Vox, if they really really want to kick him down again; is to revert back to pre-2.12 where he came back.
Then again, it has to do with his synergy with Alternating Current.
Only he and Varya use it most often of all the cast.
I think Alternating Current is the problem to a certain extend for their balance.
Blackfeather to me, despite all the demands for his buff or further eradication from relevancy; is ok right now.
He’s good going either build path, but he demands more skill to use and falters against most that he can’t deal with when going down a specific path.
Essentially, I think he only needs a bit of an attack speed buff.
As for the slow on his B, I think it’s time players either get Frostburn when going CP or Shiversteel when going weapon to make up for the lost. Slow down enemies a different way. To compensate for the riskier choice, just up his health a little bit maybe.