Her low mobility kit and poor laning really limits her in 5v5. The BoE and armor/shield nerfs made laning her difficult. Her slow movement speed between camps and lack of ganking potential makes her not ideal as a jungler. If she is meant to passively jungle farm and be a late game carry, she needs changes:
- Remove the slow on Red Mist.
- Increase Red Mist diameter by 0.5
- Increase fury decay start from 5 seconds to 7.
- Increase the timer between the first activation of Foesplitter and the second activation by 1.5 seconds.
- Decrease the cooldown on overdrive for Into the Fray from 11 seconds to 9.
With the amount of CC available, it’s hard to make Rona viable in 5v5 without making her OP.
Yeah, for example CC immunity while ulting, but this will make her really strong (even with the boots buffs).
You could make her immune to stuns but subjected to slow and roots. Channeled, non-ranged abilities in VG need something. Both Red Mist and Acrobounce suffer from VG lacking a BKB from Dota2.
I wouldn’t like that, you are basically deleting the best way to stop that ability. Deleting counters is something I don’t think it’s a good idea as it reduces the counterplay.
Its not impossible though. Look at Reim. His limiters* (chill) were removed on his A and B and hes strong as hell. A couple of nerfs and he’ll be just fine. Unlike Rona
*Chill is what made it a make or break for a player playing Reim. You HAD to get a target chilled before rooting and hitting them with heavy CP damage.
Movement in general is Ronas limitation since she has such heavy damage both paths but it doesnt mean they cant balance it out like they did and probably will with Reim.
It isn’t in my top 5 suggestion for fixes. What’s your thoughts on making Rona viable for 5v5 given the current items available?
I think stun immunity for both Acrobounce and Red Mist would be fine given the total number of CC abilities in 5v5. For 3v3, it would hurt counter play too much.
Sidebar: I think VG developed Celestial Shroud and Slumbering Husk as noob friendly versions of Aegis when what they should have done is removed the barrier from RB/Aegis while extending the duration of the skill block. Both Ozo and Rona suffer from channeled abilities that take longer than 1.5 secs to finish while only being able to cover that duration worth of stuns. Those are their “core skills” and they are completely shut down in 5v5 with the total number of stuns available.
If I was fixing RB/Aegis/Crucible, then I would remove the barrier, increase the duration to 2 seconds, put Crucible on a global cooldown, and RB/Aegis/Crucible on a hero cooldown.
Making Rona viable is hard. As you said she has no place in jungle, in bot you usually want to have a late game scaling hero (rona falls late game), but in top you are facing those ranged carries. What’s the problem with that? If you jump against kinetic, she can just B+A (with her B alone she already scapes) stopping you and probably killing you, but if it’s Gwen she can just B out and then C/A and kill you (you are cced and no way to scape), baron can just jump away, Silvernail has his traps +C, ringo has B+A, Vox A. What I mean is, the role she fits the best in is IMO top, but her adversaries are all heroes that can kill her relatively easily (specially Kinetic).
She doesn’t have a good way to dive in and as reim she suffers from mobility, but he has a lot more CC. Her C punishes her (slow), but you can’t make it so she isn’t cced because it deals a lot of damage to whatever she hits (and sustains like crazy), so that ability needs a clear counterplay. But then, her B (?) is a burst ability, so she has as her abilities one for sustain and one for burst, she doesn’t have a clear role, what is she supposed to do? Sustain or burst? Her passive is useless and again punishes her more. I would reduce the attack speed she has and increase the damage (that attack speed is worthless as she buys attack speed anyways), increasing the time to start losing blood rage is a good idea, I would also increase the gaining when basic attacking. Her C needs IMO the slow removed (maybe even a little speed boost), but it should be able to be stunned while in it.
I don’t think defence is the problem with her not sustaining in lane, what bruisers (non utility heroes) were used in top? No one.
I think her kit is just bad, I don’t think you can actually make her viable without being op. As @RiseChu said, they could make that to reim because he had a mechanic that was holding him from being meta, that mechanic is for rona her mobility, but her abilities are just devastating when they hit, so you can’t just buff her to be able to always hit her C. Due to that it’s either she is shit (when she can’t hit her C) or op. Another problem is her kit having both sustain and burst, buffing her can lead to what we saw in 3.something, she was able to outburst and out sustain everyone. They have to decide, sustain or burst? And rework the ability that wasn’t chose accordingly.
For a mode where CC is extremely popular, having a kit so weak to cc…
I hope I’ve explained everything well, too much things I wanted to say is a “small” space, if I haven’t, please tell me what you don’t understand. That’s what happens when you think what you are going to say 2 paragraphs later than what you are writing, you start mixing everything. XD
No, CS was designed as what people were asking for: a shield version of metal jacket. SH was designed as anti burst hybrid item. And Aegis was later on though as purely anti cc.
Easy, make her second proc from A root
It could work… I didn’t think on adding her cc.
This, her kit (as a lot of other heroes kit) is just not designed for 5vs5, it’s new map, the new heroes and the current changes.
But others even if they weren’t designed for 5v5 can work, Rona just has a bad kit, but I like Gatorrex’s idea of giving her a root.
Some suffers more than others + some were buffed to hide their not so much working kit (hi lance with x2 on everything from dmg to cooldowns, to passive dmg nerf) or slightly changed kit (hi reim). I wish you a gl to hit right now a ult and hit enemy for more than 1s while in 3vs3 2.8 and previous it was totally different story.
I like the idea of the root, but the problem with adding a root to her A is that she still loses to the same heroes. Any hero with a dash beats Rona. That root won’t affect Kinetic, Vox, Gwen, Baron, etc. Yes, she would match up better against Ringo and Adagio. If it isn’t instant like Reim, it will be avoided.
To be fair with lance, when they did the health changes they didn’t give him as much health as he had, he used to be the hero with the highest base health. His cooldowns have been nerfed too a few times.
You can’t delete counters. The root will make it easier for her to kill those heroes, but you can’t make them not to counter her. Imagine a reim not being vulnerable to MW or kiting. With the root she should try to bait their dashes before engaging to hit it, it also offers a lot in teamfight as you will be able to root most of the enemies in place, even if those bot laners can scape, you still root 3-4 players you can hit with your ult to sustain while doing heavy damage. It also opens a lot more compositions for her to cc chain.
I don’t think her kit “isn’t designed for 5v5”. There are mechanics that scale with more heroes. Her A generates more FH per hero hit. Her C sustains longer the more enemies hit.
I also don’t think she is stuck between burst and sustain. Glaive has both burst and sustain. His kit is just focused on a role of ganking early and pealing late. It’s designed better than Rona’s and he has a natural role.
With all the move speed boost, how exactly you will hit anyone with her ult? Especially with the current mechanics of team fights that tends to move around A LOT and you have a map without bottlenecks in contrary of the 3vs3 map. You will have a hard time to even start to land her C on a single hero, not to mention continue hitting him if he is not some t4 new player as even semi decent mid skill tier player will move aside, especially with the current meta heroes that all has some form of low cooldown relocation ability + rushing boots and low cooldown on boots.
Her A is not a good engage, she is not currently great as a jungler (in 3vs3 she was a jungler), in lane she would be destroyed both top and bot. So where she stands with her kit in that form?
Also I disagree, if her ult makes her resistant to CC, she will not be OP at all. Her ult needs to hit to keep it going and she will have hard time to hit for long even if she is CC immune. Also they can do it as phin - no stun, but slow when CC is applied.
The fact that she has no place in any role and it’s extremely vulnerable to cc in a full off cc mode proves it. Most of us have already agreed that what she needs is a rework. Number buffs aren’t effective as she will be either weak or broken.
Her A is an interesting ability but I think it should be giving better cc , so I would remove the slow and fortified health and give her fear , when she jumps on people they get the fear , if she fail to hit them she gets a fortified health and movement speed , or refund half the jump cooldown .