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Excoundrel's 4.1 skin spotlight plus balance changes 🌌


Please, show me his stats.

Because he is. In VG silver and gold he is the go to roam.

They don’t need more cc. They already have too much cc and damage, due to them bruisers are dead (non utility ones). Due to them any dive hero outside of reza and anka are dead. Being cced to dead is toxic, and Yates in particular is extremely unfunny to play against. I would 1000 times face a broken instakill baron than Yates, and it’s not even close.


Unfortunately we do not have real win rates, but usually give an accurate order. It just ranks everyone win rate a couple % higher than is possible (as i’ve said before, somehow the average wr on that site ends up at 52% or so which is impossible).

Yates has a good, but not at all dominant position, and while I would say he is top 3 captains he’s not worthy of a nerf.

You miss understand what i mean about items. The idea is not to give captains more crowd control. Just to give them meaningful item synergies. I’d be totally ok with Yates losing stun duration on his B, and in general the crowd control on captains tones down if his ult barrier, ult slow, B move speed, or B stun duration were given HP ratios, and items were added that actually suit disruption and initiator playstyle. Right now a Lance build looks more or less the same as a Lyra build, that makes no sense. And besides Yates you have to admit most non HP protection captains are slipping out of the meta. Items like Capacitor plate and rooks decree don’t suite them, and there really isn’t much meaningfull choices for captains. If you have to chose between an item with snares to counter high mobility, more protection items like rooks, or a team mobility item that would be an interesting choice. Right now it just barrier, heals, more barrier, more heals.


Yes and no, can you tell me Petal’s win rate according to Vainaura?

I remember being critized by you for using Vainaura :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

When a hero is always banned or first picked, its stronger than average I would say.

Which would mean a buff to the already most powerful class. Thanks but no.

Now we are talking clearly. If it comes with a nerf to compensate, then I don’t care.


Funny because they are the ones with the highest versatility in terms of builds.


Like Lance who’s not a great captain, Catherine who hasn’t been reliably meta for months, Grace who despite having heals doesn’t have any HP scaling. Even Churnwalker despite not receiving any nerfs since he was considered a good pick is no longer top tier. The meta captain meta tends to revolve around heroes who can take advantage of the current itemization which makes sense because the current itemization tailors exclusively towards HP scaling, barrier, heals, and fortified health.


This, was more fun to play for me when her primary dmg was the skills and her combos. I remember the times when her A dealt a lot more dmg AND had a lot longer range! Was fun and as further you shot, higher prediction was needed to hit. And it was 3vs3 with a smaller map… then it was killed both in range and dmg. Now you will deal a loootv more dmg with basic attacks vs :vgitem_clockwork: and skill combos.


I really do hope that they decide to switch her back to a ability based hero once again in the future.

She was so fun :pensive:


Lance was never a good captain in 5v5, neither was Catherine.


Is this how we want to base our discussions regarding meta and balance? 90% of the player population is POA gold and below. They spend ice/money and play the game, too. This is just a general comment. Ultimately, I agree with you that Yates is oppressive and not fun to play against.

This proves it, @coltonJW. Yates stats are tough to gauge any ways because he is banned so often. This is why stats aren’t everything. I look at top pick rate and top ban rate more than I look at win rate.

I would argue with both of you that Catherine is extremely underrated. I think she’s a great pick and have found that I have turned team fights, carried, have helped to come back, and been a major role in winning the game with her as the team’s captain. Her B is still effective in team fights. Her A is great for picking off an enemy who is out of position. I still think her ult is amazing. Yes, her A and C are easy to RB, but it’s tough to RB both and if you have decent enough cc on the rest of your team, it’s tough for the opposing cap to save crucible just for Catherine’s C.

Not to mention her perk makes her, in my opinion, the best at being a tank. Give me a rook and a fountain and my perk at 35+ (very easy in a 5v5) and I’ve got great HP and over 100 armor and shield.

EDIT: I’d be happy to start a group message with the two of you to discuss captains more, specifically Yates and Catherine, but I do fear we’re getting a bit off topic in regards to Catherine, which is partially my fault as I’ve brought it up myself. More to Excoundrel’s video, did anyone else not see a sneak preview of Lorelai’s new skin??


In fact, POA and up is just a 1% of the playerbase. Also, yes, I base the balance in the top tier. You can’t balance a game for players that doesn’t know how to fully utilise a hero, otherwise every high skill cap hero will be broken to compensate that.

I agree. People say she is bad, but I think she is very good, as a counterpick. Not as a roam though as it offers no protection to your mid laner.

I haven’t seen a Catherine ult hit since… I don’t remember, too long ago. Oh, right, since the release of the summer skins (her animation is just extremely hard to see).

Actually with how much pierce items give, defence is meh. Reason why bruisers are weak (one of the reasons), defence does nothing. The best perf for being a tank I would give it to GJ. 35% damage reduction on top of your defence is just too good.

True. Well, not really. We are discussing what we wanted to see them balance, which is also addressed in the video.

Maxman showed it.


Totally agree. What I posed was an honest question. I’m not sure which way I lean myself. Your point is hard to argue against.

Really? She can stun them from diving/chasing her mid laner. She is a great body blocker with her B activated.

I hit with it quite often I feel. Granted I’m only at 2446 in 5v5, so my competition may not be as competent. I agree it’s very hard to hit with it in 3v3. In 5v5, there is a LOT of chaos in team fights. It’s easier than you might think to sneak it in.

Could you post or message me the link? Thanks! :sunglasses:


It’s from reddit, Maxman is currently in stream so I can’t show it.


This update they just want to give bot more options, not only 3, whereas bruisers, or at least damage-requiring bruisers are only a small part of top and jungle, so is not their priority. About Kensei and Idris… well, they are midgame heroes so doesn’t scale well into lategame compared with some snipers, so there is no justification to put them in bot, and they are too weak in early to be played as top, so basically they have no roll to fill.


Found the Catherine main right here!


Balance changes are very interesting but damn I didn’t expect the Skye skin to be that polished.


A little bit off topic: VGPro is updated (Finally!!) @coltonJW @Veritas @Bobmax @Sandiha @VaKTaBi.
San aren’t is bugged XD.

Samuel nerf justified. Some stats seem bugged.


Kensei 39% wr??? Petal 47%? Lol


Nice! Won’t lie, I half got my hopes up that they adjusted the API all-together and would start including rumble and other modes. Darn. Nice to have current information on the more important things though!


Grace’s lack of HP scaling is a feature, not a bug. When she was introduced, captain builds were very cookie-cutter, and she was given CP scaling to force some choices about which of the cookie-cutter items to build and when to build them. Requiring 200 CP in addition to traditional captain items forces her to make decisions — It’s normal to not build Grace the same way 2 matches in a row (she really should build Capacitor Plate, Fountain, Crucible, and Atlas Pauldron but she usually needs to pick 2 to leave out of her build).

Grace just isn’t good. Her CP-scaled abilities aren’t really good enough to compensate for not building a Crucible or a Fountain. Her AOE stun is pretty useless compared to other captains too.


Competitive games are balanced around top top tiers. Not only mobas, all the genres with competitive direction. Just saying… :slight_smile:


SEMC does not give a damn about the API. The last communication in the official API Slack channel from an actual developer working on the API was in July 2018. The last message from ANYONE at SEMC regarding the API was February 13th.

There was so much potential there, and there was a tremendous amount of enthusiasm among the original group of developers looking to build amazing tools. All wasted.