EdAWACS Hero Idea: Seyton

[EdAWACSdenyY]

Hey, this is Ciderhelm and welcome to the Vainglory Hero Spotlight, today we will be looking at Seyton, a demagogue caster possessed by a demonic entity.

A scholar of the esoteric arts, Seyton willingly offered up his flesh to a demon named Dismas in exchange for the demon’s power and knowledge. With his bowels hosting the malefic creature, Seyton promised the demon offerings in exchange for magical powers he desperately craved.

To fulfill his contract, he attacked an entire city killing countless people while sowing hatred in the heart of a father who Seyton unknowingly left alive with only a grisly cursed scar across his chest.

Seyton now wonders the land looking for more victims to offer to Dismas, knowing full well that should he fail to placate the demon, than he will be consumed.

Link to the artist

Seyton is a mage who curses large numbers of enemies with an array of demonic spells. When his abilities are combined at the right moment and time, he can hold back groups of enemies. Should he fall in battle, enemies will have to contend with the demonic Dismas, a horrifying and overbearing brute with high durability.

HEROIC PERK: Faustian Pact

When Seyton is killed, his body is possessed by Dismas, transforming him into a demonic creature after 1.3 seconds.

• Dismas lasts for the duration of Seyton’s death timer and only disappears when Seyton is revived back at base or if he has been killed himself.

STATS: Level 1-12

Health: 687-2156
Energy: 300-675

Armor: 25-75
Shield: 20-55

Weapon: 52-138
ATK Speed: 100-136.6%

Range: 5.8
Movespeed: 3.3

FIRST ABILITY: Grip of Fear

Fires a spectral hand in the target direction that deals crystal damage to the first enemy in its path ROOTING them for 1.1 seconds. Resets its cooldown 1 time upon hitting a BRANDED enemy hero.

• If this ability hits a BRANDED enemy, the projectile bounce to all BRANDED enemies once.

Cooldown: 10s/9s/8s/7s/5s

Energy Cost: 40/45/50/55/60

Damage: 90/130/170/210/250 CP Ratio: 90%

Range: 7/7/7/7/9

SECOND ABILITY: Malefic Calling

Applies a BRAND in the target direction that deals crystal damage to the first enemy in its path and remains for 4 seconds. The cooldown of Malefic Calling is reset upon hitting an enemy hero with another ability.

• If Seyton damages a BRANDED enemy with this ability, Grip of Terror will consume the BRAND to deal increased damage.

• If Seyton damages a BRANDED enemy with Grip of Terror it will scatter the BRAND to nearby enemies.

Cooldown: 12s/11s/10s/9s/8s

Energy Cost: 40/50/60/70/80

Damage: 60/100/140/180/220 CP Ratio: 60%

Bonus Damage 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% CP Ratio: 5%

Range: 7/7/7/7/9

ULTIMATE: Ritual of Ruin

Seyton creates a 3-meter radius circle of demonic power which after 0.5 seconds, deals crystal damage to all enemies inside. Seyton takes 20% of his max health as true damage for each enemy hero he damages.

• If this ability damages BRANDED enemies, they will take increased damage from Seyton and allied heroes for the BRAND’s duration.

Cooldown: 90s/75s/60s

Energy Cost: 66/66/66

Damage: 250/350/450 CP Ratio: 100%

Damage increase (BRAND): 8%/16%/24%

---

---

Dismas Stats and Abilities

HEROIC PERK: Malefic Pact

Dismas’s ability damage and basic attacks apply Malefic Calling’s BRAND, including its damage to enemies. If Dismas kills a BRANDED enemy hero, he transforms them into Demonic Shades which will seek out and attack the nearest enemy hero.

• Shades prioritize enemy heroes Dismas is attacking.
• Shades deals 16-44 (+65% Crystal Power) crystal damage and time out when Dismas dies
• Instead of energy, Dismas’s abilities and basic attacks cost 16% of his max health.

STATS: Level 1-12

Health: 687-2156
Energy: 0

Armor: 25-75
Shield: 20-55

Weapon: 52-138
ATK Speed: 100-136.6%

Range: 2.4
Movespeed: 3.4

ULTIMATE: Rein of Terror

Dismas leaps to a target location slamming down, dealing crystal damage and chaining all damaged enemy heroes to the focal point of the impact area. Enemies who fail to move 7 meters away in 2 seconds will be yanked back to the focal point of the impact.

• This ability can only be activated if there is at least one BRANDED enemy hero.

• Each rank in Seyton’s ULTIMATE increases this abilities rank.

Cooldown: 19s/17s/15s

Energy Cost: 0/0/0/0/0

Damage: 200/250/300 CP Ratio: 100%

COMMENT DOWN BELOW ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE HERO. BUT PLEASE BE BLUNT AND HONEST AS WELL AS CONSTRUCTIVE WITH YOUR FEEDBACK.

[MacAulay]

@EdAWACSdenyY

When Seyton is killed, his body is possessed by Dismas, transforming him into a demonic creature after 1.3 seconds.

So you created a rebirth hero, finally. I was wondering when you’d get to this, I was even considering doing it myself. However, this is way too powerful. In effect, you’ve got a hero with 4350 base health (at level 12) and unless you go through all of that, no death timer. In comparison, the tankiest hero in VG, Phinn, has 2781. that’s not even 2/3. He’s about equal to a Phinn with 3 crucibles. (I can’t check stats rn but I think crucible gives +500 in the current patch). Basically, way too much.

A way to fix this, rather than making him an extremely fragile hero, while also adding a cool mechanic, would be to make his abilities when in Dismas form deal true damage to himself instead of having an energy cost. I see you’ve already done this as Seyton’s ult, but it I think the idea as Seyton should be to try and stay alive, then once you have died, Have Dismas as a last-ditch effort to try and kill as many enemies as you can before you die. It fits more to his story too, Seyton killing enemies keeps him alive by appeasing Dismas.

[EdAWACSdenyY]

I will try my best to balance this hero out as much as I can.

What about his other abilities? What are your thoughts on his skill set.i had to give him a fairly generalized kit since he’s already pretty complex.

Does he feel to complicated or overtuned?

Dismas gains 65% of Seyton’s bonus crystal power as bonus health and his abilities and basic attacks heal him based for 35% of his bonus crystal power.

• Dismas’s ability damage and basic attacks apply Malefic Calling’s BRAND, including its effects and damage to enemies.

*Instead of energy, Dismas drains 18% of his max health to use abillties.

^ This is his new Dismas passive.

What do you think @MacAulay, @Guest_78, @Lebatron @coltonJW @RiseChu?

[RiseChu]

Ill be upfront.

Being able to have a “afterlife” perk pretty much has no counterplay in my book. And thats the same reason why most other mobas dont have the same perk without a major restriction.

When he dies, he pretty much isnt “really” dead and has a new set of abilities. Not much of a restriction besides the death timer.

Rant on afterlife concepts

Its a little complicated and complex on trying to balance a hero with a living and death kit and I really dont see how you can do that without not making it broken.

Other heros with the similar death feature (from other games) would be Karthas and Sion.
• Karthas can use all of his abilities after he dies (end of death timer) but he CANNOT move at all. He’s restricted to a location and therefore you really have to plan well were you want to die if you were to die.
• Sion can still move after death but he cannot use any abilities and his “death” health is rapidly decreasing and the only way to pause it is to keep on basic attacking something.

How would you make it to where Seyton doesnt feel like he doesnt have a death and not just a second life with a second kit?

@EdAWACSdenyY

Instead of energy, Dismas drains 18% of his max health to use abillties.

I dont really think thats a restriction since (from what Ive read) if Dismas decides to only basic attack as if he was a WP sustain-build carry, it really wouldn’t matter. And late game with a 60 DT? Hmmm

Edit: It takes a while to read all of it but

@EdAWACSdenyY

basic attacks heal him based for 35% of his bonus crystal power.

Ehhh no… I would lower it.

Other than that. Its a really fun hero

[EdAWACSdenyY]

@RiseChu

I don’t really think that’s a restriction since (from what I’ve read) if Dismas decides to only basic attack as if he was a WP sustain-build carry, it really wouldn’t matter. And the late game with a 60 DT? Hmmm

I could make it that he drains 20% of his max health to use abilities and 10% of his max health for each basic attack he lands.

I mean Dismas is already pretty powerful since his basic attacks apply Seyton’s BRAND crystal damage and its additional spell effects.

@RiseChu

• Sion can still move after death but he cannot use any abilities and his “death” health is rapidly decreasing and the only way to pause it is to keep on basic attacking something.

Technically that’s not true he does have 1 ability in every ability slot when Glory in Death procs which is called Death Surge which has a cooldown of 100 and its active grants him bursts of movement speed.

@RiseChu

Ehhh no… I would lower it.

I could make it proc only on ability damage.

[RiseChu]

@EdAWACSdenyY

Technically that’s not true he does have 1 ability in every ability slot when Glory in Death procs which is called Death Surge which has a cooldown of 100 and its active grants him bursts of movement speed.

Ah interesting. I dont play sion ever so its cool to learn this lol

[MacAulay]

Sion is awesome, I love his death mechanic, you should try him sometime.

[MacAulay]

I also think he’s way too convoluted and overloaded. I’m having way too much trouble trying to figure out how all the combos work, how to apply nether fyre and brand etc. Sure, you don’t want heroes to be simple and same-y, but there is a point where it becomes too much, and I think you’ve overstepped it here.

However, I do like how you’ve made Seyton a ranged, immobile mage, while Dismas is more of an enraged creature who chases down enemies. It’s fitting to a Mage and demon.

Also would you mind checking out my new hero design Saluman? I need some feedback on him, thanks.

[EdAWACSdenyY]

@MacAulay

I’m having way too much trouble trying to figure out how all the combos work, how to apply nether fyre and brand etc.

His second ability as Seyton applies a BRAND that deals damage. So the ability itself is the BRAND. To apply Nether Frye you just have to hit an enemy that’s been already BRANDED.

Does that make sense or no?

I was thinking of lowering the number of combos he has actually. Any suggestions?

I basically don’t want him to be an AOE heavy damage mage. But an AOE CC mage with combos. The current form is a bit overloaded by it does accomplish what I had in mind.

[LegendaryE]

So in that transforming phase is he killable like alpha or is he transforming no matter what and then you have to fight his second form , I think after reading others comment I think trap him in a range around his body is more reasonable even if he has all his abilities , so he can be an object secure hero , like if he always make sure to die next to the kraken , black claw and ghostwing , he going to be hard to deal with and you need to kill him far from the good spots .

I didn’t actually read the numbers , but if he is going to be trapped around his body , he should be weak in his first form and strong in the second , so it will be a tactical death and he wants to die in the good spot , that’s could make him anti AOE heroes because he can take the damage anyway and die while they don’t want to kill him there .

[EdAWACSdenyY]

@MacAulay

I also think he’s way too convoluted and overloaded. I’m having way too much trouble trying to figure out how all the combos work, how to apply nether fyre and brand etc. Sure, you don’t want heroes to be simple and same-y, but there is a point where it becomes too much, and I think you’ve overstepped it here.

I have now simplified all of Seyton’s combos so they are easier hopefully to understand. What do you think now @MacAulay, @Guest_78, @RiseChu ?

Also for Dismas, I decided to remove 2 of his abilities and instead leave him with only his ultimate which is only available at level 6. However his ultimate will be increased in rank based on how many points Seyton places into his ULTIMATE

[RiseChu]

Much better than the original. As he was, he was wayyyyyyy too complex and strong for a mobile moba. And his after-form is more balanced and gives more room for counter play.

[MacAulay]

@EdAWACSdenyY

leave him with only his ultimate which is only available at level 6.

This is nice, gives him a massive power spike at level 6 tho. That’s not a bad thing, just not sure if that’s what you were aiming for.

[EdAWACSdenyY]

@RiseChu

Much better than the original. As he was, he was wayyyyyyy too complex and strong for a mobile moba. And his after-form is more balanced and gives more room for counterplay.

But what about his combo’s now and his gameplay as Dismas? Does Dismas feel a worthwhile part of Seyton’s kit?

@MacAulay

This is nice, gives him a massive power spike at level 6 tho. That’s not a bad thing, just not sure if that’s what you were aiming for.

I mean what I wanted is a mage who gets possessed when they die and the demon is a bruiser.

But what do you think of Seyton’s combo’s now?

Also, can you both guess which of my heroes Seyton may be connected to?

[RiseChu]

@EdAWACSdenyY

Does Dismas feel a worthwhile part of Seyton’s kit?

Yep, fun hero now that he isnt two heros in one kit.

[EdAWACSdenyY]

Some tweaks to Seyton’s abilities and some new quality of life Preseason changes for Dismas.

@MacAulay, @RiseChu @Guest_78 @Lebatron @coltonJW

Because Seyton (and Dismas) are such as unique hero it is difficult to balance them without either severely weakening the hero or making them too powerful. These changes will seek to make each character more balanced while still making the demonic duo still fun to play.

Firstly let’s move onto Seyton himself. Seyton’s biggest problems as a hero were his combos with too many ability resets. This new change will limit his ability to spam combos while still making him a calculating mage.

Grip of Fear

Projectile speed decreased by 25%

Now resets its cooldown 1 time upon hitting a BRANDED enemy hero.

Damage: 130/170/220/270/310 -----> 90/130/170/210/250

CP Ratio: from 130% ----> 90%

Malefic Calling

The cooldown of Malefic Calling is reset upon hitting an enemy hero with another ability.

CP Ratio for increased damage changed from 25% ----> 5%

A new heroic perk for Dismas!

Removed Health scaling and self-healing based on bonus crystal power

HEROIC PERK: Malefic Pact

Dismas’s ability damage and basic attacks apply Malefic Calling’s BRAND, including its damage to enemies. If Dismas kills a BRANDED enemy hero, he transforms them into Demonic Shades which will seek out and attack the nearest enemy hero.

• Shades prioritize enemy heroes Dismas is attacking.
• Shades deals 16-44 (+35% Crystal Power) [{melee}] crystal damage and time out when Dismas dies
• Instead of energy, Dismas’s abilities and basic attacks cost 16% of his max health.

[coltonJW]

I like this hero . He’s at least somewhat strait forward, and has a cool ability set, but is as usual very very over powered.

There are a couple issues that stand out to me.

1. His second form lasting based on death timer is just I’ll concieved. It means A: He never is actually off the map. B: It will frustratingly short early game, and C: Lacks consistency for the player, as it will constantly be changing.

Just give it a flat duration (for example 10 seconds), and delay the respawn starting until he’s fully dead. This goes a long way to balancing the character as well since he will actually not be around at some point.

2. His A/B combo has way too many interactions, not least of which the ability to endlessly combo, since using his A resets his B, and hitting a branded enemy resets his A, you can constantly spam these. Unless the “one time” effect is supposed to limit this? But what does “1 time” even mean? One time per life? I would make hitting a branded enemy with his A reduce its cooldown to a certain percentage. Maybe 75%? And 50% at overdrive.

3. Having two impact projectiles with the same range, and similar cooldowns is just asking for one dimensional play, there is a reason most hero A/B ability do very different things with different cooldowns. His core A/B gameplay feel like a less interesting version of Magnus.

4. His second form is just over powered. It should have way way less health, or have significantly crippled damage compared to his base form. Why is his “finale breath form” way more power full than his base. Imagine if Celeste respawned on death with her As automatically going supernova, her basic attacks slowing targets, and a reset ultimate cooldown that also stunned enemies or something. In fact that would be weaker than what you have.

Also, giving him a second ultimate with almost 20s cooldown makes no sense. This means you can go in, use his ult killing himself, only to respawn with another ult ready to go, not to mention 20s is longer than your respawn for most of the game. Honestly, his second form shouldn’t have an ult imo, it’s alreayd insane (like really insane), just make his ult a suicide button if you don’t want to delay your respawn. Even the fact that he automatically brands enemies, and the shades is overkill, I don’t see why you feel the need to pile on so many effects to an already stacked kit.

I do really love his base form ult though, it’s simple, and fits his kit perfectly. In fact I’d reduce the self inflicted damage, and increase the range (3m is tiny) to make it a little more impactful.