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EdAWACS Hero Idea: Hadeon


#21

Oops, this is what I get for editing hero ideas at 4 am in the morning. Yes, the ability now no longer slows and I reduced the CP Ratio slightly.

I lowered the ratio on his Heal again and also gave it a CP Ratio. The most drastic change I made today is that now his B is now a skill shot that causes him to collide with the first enemy hero in its path.

I also removed the bonus damage from this ability and instead has it deal empowered basic attack damage similar to how Kestrel’s Glimmershot works.

Enemies will see where he lands but that’s more an issue of how the ability animation would look like if the hero model was tested.

That’s fair. I’m also thinking of reducing his bonus critical strike chance. What numbers would you suggest for that?

This is why I decided to make the B ability a skillshot so it requires more skill to land. It’s still a single target ability so the captain can body block.






But it does make it easier to dodge and anticipate compared to a Yates pull. Anyways did you look at the hero idea again? I made some changes to Hadeon based on the feedback I received.

Glad you like the change.

Refer to the recent posts above

I have now made his B ability a skillshot and nerfed the duration of the Suppression. This is one of the features I intend to keep on Hadeon.

I think the more appropriate term you were looking for is “immunity from crowd control”. Hadeon was never invulnerable but instead immune to crowd control. He is now only immune to enemy slows.

I have now changed Hadeon based on the feedback provided.


#22

Well there are some glaringly obvious similarities since they are both generated from taking damage. The only difference is that Rona generates more rage from attacking enemies with mortal wounds. I dunno about giving Hadeon energy. I feel that defeats the purpose of him having a special resource bar.

As for the attack speed, keep in mind that Baptiste only has to hit enemies 4 times to get his empowerment while Hadeon requires you to devote considerable effort to generate Wrath (more so with the recent changes I made to his kit)

I actually did consider giving this ability the power to push enemies in the direction the ax was traveling by reactivating the effect, but I felt that thematically, that doesn’t fit into Hadeon’s lore and character profile since he’s an angry man who wants to dive into the fight without fear of death.

The other reason I made this ability a simple drag is that it to give the first ability so much utility might overload Hadeon’s kit.

The range of the tether has now been reduced and he no longer shares true damage. I, however, intend to keep the suppression effect because I feel it brings something unique to Vainglory. To compensate, I have made the ability a skillshot rather than a targeted dash.

Some people in the forum and in the community seem to think that this ultimate is very powerful already.

I specifically did not give this ultimate base damage scaling as that would make the damage rebound seem much too powerful. I have now clarified in the wording that he only reflects damage he’s received while his ultimate is active.

The ultimate is also quite hard to pull off if you want maximum damage potential. Unlike alpha’s ultimate where you explode after a short time limit or after your barrier is breached, Hadeon has to properly time his ultimate.

If he waits too long to reactivate his ultimate than Hadeon will get focused down and die. Smart enemy teams will know to overwhelm him with damage before he can react in time.

If he reactivates the ultimate too early than Hadeon has wasted his best ability for turning a team fight around and doesn’t have that massive of a heal making him easy to focus down as now he has to build up his Wrath resource bar again from zero.

Basically a Good Hadeon player will need to know when to reactivate his ultimate to not take so much damage that they die before they can heal and unleash all the damage he’s dealt back at his enemies.

@hazeleyes, @coltonJW, @RiseChu, @Veritas

Well, Hadeon was inspired by Doom slayer from DOOM 2016 as well as the Punisher Frank Castle. He’s meant to be a man driven an insatiable need for destroying his adversaries and moved by not magic, not technology, but by the sheer force of his human willpower.


#23

Fair point. Tbh I think 45% isn’t too high, I was just trying to find something to compare it to.

Fair enough, but unique isn’t great if it’s not balanced. I still think it’s too powerful, especially with no easy way of breaking it and such a short cooldown on the ability. Even something more like 15 seconds at max level would probably balance it out a lot.


#24

I’m taking a different perspective than some here. As a 1v1 duelist, he is OP. You get him weaker, well, you’re really making him stronger. However, I feel in large team fights, his perk and max wrath won’t help him too much in 5v5 team fights especially against burst damage heroes and I also feel he’s weak vs mobile heroes, so I feel he’s more balanced than others are claiming. While immune to slows, he can still be stunned from what I’m reading. He’s definitely stronger in 3v3. I would increase cool down on his ultimate a little bit.


#25

Keep in mind the 45% attack speed is only at level 12. So early game the bonus attack speed is kinda eh. It shines a lot more in mid to late game. Where he becomes a basic attacking bruiser.

I made it into a skillshot now and lowered the duration of the ability which will hopefully make it more balanced since its no longer point and click but skill shot oriented and can be blocked by your captain.

If I give the ability a 15-second cooldown than similar to Rona’s Foe-Splitter or Ardan’s Blood for Blood. I will also have to give it cooldown reduction via critical strikes or basic attacks (leaning currently towards cooldown reduction via landing critical strikes)


#26

That was actually the foundations of the hero idea to start. That the lower you got him the more dangerous he was.

Yes, he can still be stunned silenced put to sleep etc. I mean he’s literally a “man too angry to die” so he’s relying not on magic or technology but sheer human willpower. So of course big angry man can still be CC’ed to death or just avoided until he calms down.

What cooldown numbers should he have? Keep in mind his ultimate is locked down until he is Enraged ie. his resource bar is full and red in color.


#27

Of his ult? Considering his passive (which goes up to 60% crit chance when missing 90% of his health) and the fact that when in the ult you want to absorb damage (so you will get a high crit chance from the passive), 20/25/30% is what I would put him, or 15/20/25%.

Great change.


#28
  • Each of Hadeon’s critical strikes will decrease the cooldown of Suffer With Me by 1 second.

When ENRAGED, Suffer With Me will also SUPPRESS its target preventing them from using abilities and basic attacks. However, a suppressed enemy can still move and use items.

Cooldown: 15s/15s/15s/15s/13s

Energy Cost: 0/0/0/0/0

Basic attack damage: 60%/80%/100%/120%/130%

Range: 4.5/4.5/4.5/4.5/7.5

Heal: 90/135/180/225/270 CP Ratio: 50% | WP Ratio: 30%

Suppression Duration (ENRAGED): 0.6s/0.8s/1s/1.2s/1.4s

Some changes to Hadeon’s second ability based on further suggestions.

Firstly his B now has 15s/15s/15s/15s/13s cooldown numbers however each critical strike Hadeon lands will reduce the cooldown of this ability by 1 second.

What do you think @VaKTaBi as well as @MacAulay?

Hopefully, this will balance out this second ability.

I currently placed it at 15%/25%/35% which at max rank is about the same critical strike chance as Tyrants monocle.


#29

Definitely better compared to how was before.

I prefer invulnerability to CC, but I guess is just about how each of us express itself.


#30

What do you think about the rest of Hadeon’s kit now?

Do you feel it will be too hard now for him to get his B since it relies on landing critical strikes rather than just basic attacks?


#31

I think he is weaker in 3v3 less people damaging him and easy to run from him and you counter him directly with a snowball hero and from the start deny him farm , he wants people cc him and damage him in 5v5 so you say they can burst him down like he was alone 1v5 , the problem here is you need to kill his teammates to take your time bursting him down they won’t watch him getting killed if you attack while he surrounded by his teammates you going to die , so it’s a weird situation , either snowball him or catch him with vision in a disadvantage situation .


#32

Why? Critical strikes will only reduce his cooldown, but he still has 13 seconds at maximum rank, which is pretty good.


#33

Well, in 3v3 he can deny the damage from the enemy laner, and with the lack of CC compared with 5v5 the enemy will have a hard time dealing with you, because you can’t allow him to reach your laner. And although there is not so much damage as in 5v5 (or maybe there is – in both game modes you have 2 damage dealers, so depending on the comp you use, you can have the same damage moreless ) you are more likely to survive during your ult and heal yourself.


#34

Yes, probably, but I still think the cooldown on his B is plenty low enough anyway. On the other hand, I don’t particularly like the RNG aspect of it (although buy 2 TMs and basically every basic attack is a crit anyway)


#35

Well, Hadeon does gain increased critical strike chance the lower his health is and his ultimate also grants him temporary critical strike chance. So he actually doesn’t need 2 tyrants just like Glaive doesn’t really need a Tyrants in his current build.

I just didn’t want it to be just cooldown via basic attacks.


#36

Like pretty much every single one of your heroes there are good ideas, but you tried to do too much which ends up detracting from the overall design. Sometimes less is more.

His perk is good, but far too strong. the bonus attack speed should simply be 5-15% at most. Love the immunity to slows, really good idea for a melee carry.

His A seems fine, but I don’t quite understand the reactivation. Presumably you can reactivate it any time before it turns around. If so the question becomes, why not just reactivate every time you use it? I would make it consume a % of max hp around 8 as a cost to reactivate to make it a more meaningful choice.

His B has cool ideas but does far to much and I think needs to be cleaned up a lot. I would remove the heal, and make the tether breakable by moving out of it’s range, which should be extended to 6-8m. Add an additional effect which causes him to take 20% or so less damage from tethered enemy. Now the enemy can actually break the tether, and you aren’t saddled with this awkward permanent tether mechanic. The enrage effect is entirely broken, even with the new ability to break it by moving away. I would simply have increased damage in initial impact when enraged, or return the heal effect when enraged.

the ult is a very cool ability that makes a lot of sense for a warrior. The only issue is the adversary damage amp which is insanely high. 30%? what?


#37

Keep in mind the 45% attack speed is only at level 12 as well as the fact that Hadeon has very low base attack speed. I will be willing to maybe reduce bonus attack speed gained while Enraged to around 10-30% but not 5%-15% as that makes it pointless to include in the perk at all.

The reactivation of his A can only occur when the spinning ax returns to him. He cannot reactivate the ability as the spinning ax is going outwards. Only on the return path.

It seems many people here really really dislike my version of the Suppresion mechanic. I guess I was just stubborn in my pride in Hadeon that I wanted him to have a mechanic that no other warrior had.

Seeing as how many people dislike the Suppression mechanic I will remove it from his kit and instead transfer the self heal from his base ability to the Enraged variation.

As for the the tether I guess I can make breakable from. But that also means that I will have to revert some changes to this ability @Guest_78 and @coltonJW such as making this a targeted dash once again rather than a skill shot.

Otherwise he would be quite weak without much payoff if I retain this ability as a skill shot.

I guess I could maybe lower the damage amplification a bit more. But I also want to argue against nerfing this ability since it is his ultimate and it’s onky against one specific enemy not everyone.

Since I have very few input on the new Adversary mechanic I’m going to hold off on changing this.

So I have made changes to Hadeon once again @Guest_78 and @coltonJW hat do you think? More balanced or I messed up?

Also lastly @coltonJW what do you think of his design aesthetic as a man not empowered by magic( well he is to a degree) nor technology but simply his sheer willpower and strength?

I based him on Doomslayer and the Punisher