Currently been waiting over 30 minutes to play a ranked 5v5. Have found EIGHT matches. ALL of them have been dodges in draft. This is unbelievable. The entitled, picky, and childish community that’s starting to develop at “high” elos is becoming quite annoying. Until today, MM has actually been bearable this season for me! I’ve had mostly high quality games - I’ve even seen some old pros play a few games on the NA server. This morning however - holy smokes!
I firmly believe in the following:
A monthly or weekly reset of your dodging LPQ:
1 dodge = LPQ for 1 min for 3 matches
2 dodges = LPQ for 2 min for 3 matches
3 dodges = LPQ for 3 min for 3 matches
4 dodges - LPQ for 4 min for 3 mathces… etc
You see where I’m going. You want to dodge more? Fine, deal with more LPQ and waste of your own time in queue for the time you’ve wasted of others. I’d want to see a monthly reset.
To quote you describing other people as “entitled, picky, and childish” in a scenario were you even admit you’ve not had a problem with before and you want changes implemented “NOW”. Like WOW, mother tooting WOW.
Again, Chill…Pill.
My advice, take this post down. It makes you look really bad and I’ll take the benefit of the doubt and say you probably aren’t a bad person and have been super frustrated by this and tbh it’s something that’s probably affected a lot of us but this is such a sour selfish post, could be said in a completely different and more constructive way.
I mean it is the salt mine, so it’s to be expected. All of us have very strong feeling towards this issue even if you find the language here to be a bit much. If anything, I have to agree with him personally
Dodging is a big problem. I don’t see anything wrong in this thread, why should he take a chill if? He is giving ideas of how would he address that problem.
How this thread makes him be a bad person? He is asking for a solution, giving reasons and possible solutions, not just complaining.
The dodging issue is not new at all and has been discussed many times. He is right to be angry. Wasting 30 mins to then not even enter a match its not normal.
The changes should had been implemented a year ago already.
I dont understand how this post makes him look a bad person, if anything angry (which is what the salto mine is for). There is no need to take this post down at all, in fact It shows to what point has dodging come.
This is not a selfish post at all, this post is pointing how much of a problem is dodging in general.
From your comment It seems you are one of those dodgers and are scared of those punishments to go live.
@Lebatron i agree with you, ive had days where ive been waiting for about 45 mins just to give Up. The dodging problem is ridiculous and needs to be fixed, but i also think MM plays a very big part in this problem as its the most common reason why people dodge (not wanting to play with much lower tier players against high elo ones, or they know they are facing a pentaQ…). IMO, they first need to make better the MM and then punish hard those who dodge.
Whoa whoa, easy does it. Veritas is actually one of the most reliably optimistic and reasonable voices in the forum; he’s not coming at this from a sour and selfish angle, I assure you; he’s just feeling frustrated and getting some things off his chest, which we allow, in moderation. He’s also a really high tier player, and sees the habits and mannerisms of other high tier players often, so he’s qualified to make a critique of that group of players, in my opinion. I also see the same group (not in gameplay, but in chats around various discord servers), and can’t say he’s totally wrong. Again, let’s cut him a little slack on that.
He said a few hot words, but he then turned down the heat with a classic dad take - “holy smokes!” He’s not trying to dwell on negativity, just blowing off some steam. And this subforum is the salt mine, where you can do that. He didn’t call out any specific players, or use profanity, so at the end of the day, it’s not that bad.
As to his claim that dodging needs to be addressed, like, yesterday… I think he’s got a point. Dodging is an issue, and the more it happens, the less people will want to play, which hurts us all, and none of us wants that.
And just to be clear, I totally get where you’re coming from too. Overly negative posts don’t help - they don’t move the devs to action, and they make a negative environment that rubs off on other players. I’m all for positivity, so… let’s all look at some happy emojis and relax.
It’s arguably the biggest issue in the game right now. As a mobile game, which is what this game is after all, you can’t have players in queue as much time, or even more, than the duration of the match itself.
The fact that it’s been a big issue for over a year already and nothing has been done to address it is starting to worry me honestly and makes my question their priorities.
I understand your point of view, especially when referencing how I referred to some players. I do stand by that sentiment overall, however, but want you to know that it’s all good. I appreciate the support from other forumers backing me up. I usually am quite the optimist, and I presented what I thought would be a reasonable solution to this ongoing issue.
My remarks about some of the community has to do with what I’ve experienced way too much. Be it in-game freak outs (literally, players throwing a match) because a captain or someone took literally one CS from “your” lane. It also translates to in-draft chat. Someone takes “your role” or someone doesn’t ban a hero you want, then ‘hey, let’s dodge!’ In the future, I’ll simply present the anecdote/experience, and stay away from the more harsh rhetoric.
Also, do you disagree that it doesn’t need to be addressed NOW? Are you happy with the current system? This is what the salt mine is for, so I don’t think I need a “chill pill”, to take the post down, nor to provide an apology to you (not that I owe you and nor did you ask for one, or anyone one, as this is the salt mine and as others have mentioned, I don’t think my post was that egregious in nature.) I stand by my overall sentiments.
I think overall, player attitudes can improve. It doesn’t mean all are bad.
I think overall that there needs to be a WAY more stern response to dodging matches. (If someone makes an awful/troll pick or ban, you can thumbs down the player after the game!)
Also, I sent my suggestion over to SEMC in a much more neutral manner (again, this is the salt mine, a place to vent within reason!) and here was their response, which left me feeling relatively optimistic:
“These are good suggestions, but the timers are too lenient. We will send your suggestion to our team and our own, based on your message. Hopefully, this system is implemented!” - now, while it may be a run-of-the-mill good customer service response, I did like the point made about the timers being “too lenient” - perhaps they are looking into a pretty strict punishment!?!? Reason for hope?
No penalty. Every time one of the teams got even a slight advantage in draft - someone dodge. Only tied draft and when someone is not cry baby for not taking exact position or/and hero - the game starts.
Till there is no real punishment like -30 elo lost per dodge in every tier (higher than what you get from losing and a lot higher than what you will lose in t10) and if still abused lpq - dodges will continue. People are obsessed to have favour conditions and win, thus basically the draft phase and something like “winning the draft” are not existent anymore.
Thanks for the reply. Like i said , i wasn’t going to assume this was how you usually are and i get even more your frustrations about the negative behavior you’ve experienced.
To go back to topic (dodging/trolling), I’m really on the fence with this one. Personally i do get frustrated, Vainglory takes up so much of my time and i do hate it when i spend even more time waiting for people to actually just accept or just have a game were everyone seems to play just to enjoy the game. I would absolutely not, ever, wait 30 mins to have a game. I just don’t get that whatsoever. I love VG, i don’t love it that much.
In my original reply i was mainly commenting on your attitude (which needed it’s own category, the salt mine isn’t salty enough for it). I would 100% respect the implementation of your suggestions. When i first started playing the game i swear they did do that and I’ll admit i did dodge (i hate SAWs), and i didn’t like it if i had to wait 10 mins to just wait to go into draft. The problem is though that when that starts to happen people decide they would rather not come back then wait.
Yeah it’s a double edged sword since trolls then have WAY more power to force people into wasting time. However, with the sheer frequency of dodging rn, I think it is better to heavily punish dodging. Hopefully the blacklist feature works as intended too lul
The salt mine is perfectly fine for any salt, even this post is fine here. The annoyance of having to sit through a queue time so long because of dodgers is understandable especially when dodgers aren’t being punished much if not at all.
This has been an issue for awhile and not having decent punishment for this for so long isn’t acceptable. Honestly if someone kept dodging racking up their lpq time and then decided it wasn’t worth waiting and left, I’d say that is better than having 9 or 5 other people having to constantly deal with dodging for 10 mins+ to then get in a game that could possibly be as long or even shorter than the queue time they had to sit through
They will force more people to stop playing with the current state of no punishment of dodging than they will do if they put severe punishment.
LPQ is also not the only way - ELO is a valid one too. Do you think that VG silver that gains/lose 2 elo will dodge if he will lose -30 elo? Same goes with VG bronze - gaining and losing 3-7 elo vs -30 for dodging. Literally 5 more loses on top of the one you will potentially suffer if you play out the not so good draft for your side.
Then if someone is stubborn the LPQ should come on top of the -elo.
I’m pretty sure dodging currently costs 25 elo. I might dodge one match out of 50 (probably less), but the one time I’ve done it since the patch it popped up a message saying I lost 25 elo.
The power grid where I live has a lot of outages during the summer, and I often need to switch to my phone midway through a match if it’s a hot day. Xfinity goes out every couple of days too. (AT&T is reliable, at least.) I probably wouldn’t play this game at all if I got LPQ every time I ‘dodged’. I’d really rather lose the elo.
I think that when people go several matches in a row with “dodges”, it’s probably not intentional. There are a lot of things which might keep 1 person out of 10 from pressing a button before the time runs out. I’m fine with assessing a penalty for all the random stuff, but LPQ is a risky penalty, since people won’t play a game that keeps them from playing. If I get an LPQ I usually stop playing long enough that it disappears rather than waiting through the LPQ.
I has a bad tendency to set my device down while I’m waiting in LPQ (since I can’t do anything with it while I’m waiting) , so once that starts I’m basically don’t playing Vainglory until the LPQ resets.
A positive way to prevent some intentional dodges might be to let players mark positions they are willing to play before they queue, and just don’t start a match unless there are players willing to fill every position. Most intentional dodges I see are from players who don’t want to captain, but their teammates already locked other positions.
I’m not going to do it on purpose to test it, but I accidentally dodged yesterday when the power browned out and my router reset, and I lost 25 elo from it.
I’m not sure if the game registers that the same. It might have put you into the game, and then it registered you as quitting once the game started, and thus, you lost elo. I could be wrong.
It was during the select screen. I never got the chance to select a hero, so I couldn’t have gotten into a game.
I don’t dodge or have connection problems enough to be certain if the message pops up every time, but I’ve seen the message both times that I’ve “dodged” (wasn’t intentional) this patch.
He’s also a really high tier player, and sees the habits and mannerisms of other high tier players often, so he’s qualified to make a critique of that group of players, in my opinion. I also see the same group (not in gameplay, but in chats around various discord servers), and can’t say he’s totally wrong. Again, let’s cut him a little slack on that.
