I don’t really expect a game company of a mobile game that is in a really bad financial state to listen to me, don’t I? Just share my opinion with you all, the fellow forums members.
I said “someone” not SEMC. That includes other forumers. 
I don’t know, it’s just a tip for effective communication.
What exactly is the evidence you have that they are in a “really bad financial state?”
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Don’t be like that, from someone who was on the same page like 1 month ago to go 180 is not cool. I agree that more positivity is needed and less negativity, but it’s not cool to start to argue and in some cases in a rude ways vs the people you shared opinion with in like few weeks ago. People change their opinion and that’s ok, but don’t go on “war” albeit a more polite one vs the people that still carry the opinion you once had.
This is with no offence intended and not only about that thread.
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Its something nobody can prove about semc. And just as you stated, its a perk for being such a private company.
Redditors are like “The game isnt dying” and Im like wheres the proof.
It seems like evidence-less statements are being thrown around in the forums too 
I wont jump in on the topic because im just satisfied with getting a little more ice out than what I put in.
Exactly my point, and that whole topic has been discussed to death elsewhere.
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I am referring to both paid and free battlepass. Both give less rewards and SEMC said it gives more. I just checked all rewards anyway to make sure I know what I’m talking about completely. Mind telling me in what way is it subjective? You get Epic Mystery key from free battlepass level 100. Ok great. You used to get 4 for free. From paid you get multiple silver and gold keys. They give you glory. Sometimes something else. Anyway worthless unless you need heroes. You used to get heroes from battlepass and 1 UNOWNED hero. Now you don’t. You used to get UNOWNED skin blueprints. Now you don’t. Yeah sure they give me 2 blueprints, great but how is that guaranteed to be something I don’t have? It’s like saying I can get the 1 million ICE reward from the free Epic mystery chest key I get. Yeah sure it’s possible. Does that mean it’s realistically better or on par with old battlepasses though? And again I don’t want them to make it like before if they don’t earn money from that. But please don’t lie to me about being better than before. It is better at literally nothing. And yes it is lying. You said that a company would only lose more from lying and I don’t disagree but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it. SEMC proved many times that they could and would do it no matter the result.
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First of all, where do they actually say this season’s Battle Pass gives more? They never actually say that in the announcement. The closest they get is “this season will be the most rewarding yet.” which is the last phrase of the article. You can argue that’s misleading wordplay, but I think people should know it refers to player satisfaction, not gross total of rewards, especially since it comes at the end, after all the details have been spelled out. If anyone is attacking the pass because they think SEMC are lying about its total worth, they’re letting their own preconceptions color the debate.
As for how it’s subjective, I’ve already said it twice. If the bulk of the ICE value of the pass’s rewards come from things a player doesn’t like (talents, say), then that player will say the pass is worse. But if the pass is worth the same amount in ICE value, but is made of rewards that appeal to that player (like skins, say), then that player will say the pass is better. The objective measure is the ICE value of the rewards; the subjective measure is how that value reflects what the player finds worthwhile.
Key point - you based your impression on the idea that SEMC is lying about the objective value of the pass, but I don’t think you have proof to say that. Whether or not the pass actually pays out more or less isn’t at issue.
Personally, I also think it doesn’t really matter. I’m really impressed with a lot of the changes they made this time around. It’s easier to predict how much effort you have to put in to level up, it’s easier to know when bonus sunlight will be given (match rewards, free chests, events), and it’s awesome that they’ve removed grinder’s guilt about which skin you want to play. I think those are all great steps forward to making a transparent and engaging progression system. If you think the objective rewards aren’t as good as you’d like them to be, you can say so! And hopefully that improves too. I’m really just finding issue with how your initial argument was framed and conceived.
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From the update info news:
"### WINTER BATTLEPASS
Changes are a comin’! Winter brings a fresh new Battle Pass! Stay tuned for a detailed look at the exciting new rewards, more rewards, and more ways to earn Sunlight! TLDR: More, better. "
Tho you can say “more” is about let’s say quantity and not value/quality. 
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Yeah true. The particulars get muddy across multiple social media posts.
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Pretty sure they said that on the dev stream not announcements as I haven’t read any announcements regarding battle pass. If it refers to player satisfaction it’s even worse. I can’t think of a single person who would want a talent over an unowned skin lol.
If you give the same rare skin blueprint 60 times in the battle pass technically it costs a lot right? Does that mean the battle pass isn’t worthless? Giving expensive things that players don’t want (aka talents and materials for example) doesn’t mean it’s justified. It’s tricking people. And yes there are players who play blitz and love talents. But then again would any of them prefer to get that talent over a skin or epic key which would give them much more? Even then you can’t judge ICE cost of the battlepass rewards. How exactly do you measure unowned skin/hero cost? That’s not even in the shop. It was worth much more than random blueprint.
I do have proof last battle pass is worth less than the one before though…? Someone posted the comparison before. Someone will probably do this again for this season’s battlepass. Even then can you give me an example with 1 person who thinks this season gives more? Because I can give an example with people who disagree. Just scroll up.
I didn’t say anything about those other changes. I said I don’t care that much for what battle pass gives I just don’t want to be lied to.
You should read again what my point is. I don’t care what reward is. I don’t play enough to get the rewards anyway. Just want to not be lied to.
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But that doesn’t matter. You’re the one who’s saying SEMC said it gives more this season. But the official announcement doesn’t promise greater value, and it’s ambiguous about whether they said or implied that anywhere else. So you’re asking me to find evidence of someone who’s been tricked by a lie that SEMC didn’t tell.
Also, I never said anything about the relative values of past seasons’ battle passes. If I did, sorry, I didn’t mean to. I’ve only ever been trying to analyze how you’re discussing this season’s battle pass, and suggesting that you’re being unfair about semc lying to you.
Uhhh, Nivmett said that once on discord, and even the CEO admitted it in some article/interview whatevs…
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But they said it on stream and here cha0z gave you an example of actual announcement from them. We aren’t making deals with demons to need to read between the lines and interpret the countless meanings a sentence may have. They said “more rewards” I take that as MORE REWARDS. If they rely on wordplay to sell their products isn’t that already bad?
As I said multiple times I don’t care for specific rewards personally. It’s just that they advertise it as better than before while in reality it’s worse. Remember how rare chests had very high drop rates for new content? Then they changed it to not include new content AT ALL. In this case they didn’t say anything about that (unlike battlepass) yet it was still tricking people. No announcement or anything. How can you continue to have trust in such a company?
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I think because I never assume anything at face value. If it’s not spelled out concretely somewhere, I don’t believe it until I see it. New content in rare chests, for instance. I remember when that was a thing, and you’d save a key for the next patch for a really good shot at the new hero for free. But that always felt unintended, at odds with the drop rates that were published, and it certainly didn’t feel guaranteed, so I never expected to be the same forever. Kind of shocked other people did.
I think overall, people value status quo way too much. Not just in the game, but in life. You never have a guarantee on so many things, so why act as if you do? That was a rhetorical you, not a you you, for what it’s worth.
It’s clear they tend to mislead people into twisted beliefs about their uhh products (?)
That’s just undeniable, I don’t get how anyone is still trying to defend that saying things like “uhh yeah, you could argue that could or couldn’t mislead” or “yeah, it becomes muddy through different social media”.
They have been doing it for more than a year. I’m so done with people defending that and pretending things never happened.
1.- Talents were firstly announced as collectible hero upgrades that would be obtained ONLY by playing and using glory. Then they sneaked those overpriced talent chests in the market. Everyone knows how cluttered is the market with all the rng talent deals and do I really need to mention the p2w mess that Blitz has become after making talents p2w when they said the oppsite.
2.- The previous skin system was removed because “it was confusing to players” and they assured this one was gonna be better and blah blah blah, anyone here has been able to make use of their stacked essence? Yeah that’s what I thought.
So card collecting was confusing and hat materials and duplicates are perfect and not a total mess. Ok.
3.- Golden ticket scam. Don’t wanna bring this one here again but had to remind it to those who love to pretend trash like this never happened.
4.- During SP Fortress release update there was one issue with one of the weekly offers saying it gives an unowned skin when it clearlt didn’t as people complained about it on reddit.
5.- Chests and keys being announced as the new f2p rewards system. Yeah sure, let me know when you get to open one of your 48 silver chests with no keys at all.
There’s lot more but like this battle pass right now, you already know the drill. They do that often enough for people to get tired of it. That’s just undeniable. Don’t defend what can’t be defended. Bye.
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Tho with all the bad things we said here, I must include that overall the update is really good (except the price model from the veteran classic modes player point of view, that is somewhat tied to battle pass/free pass/chests/rewards/etc.) and going into the right direction with key changes that we hoped to happen for quite some time. I really look forward update 4.0 that builds on top of that for a more polished experience.
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I agree. My point this whole time is for us to be more specific, so we can critique the things that are actually wrong and exploitative, not just make blanket criticisms that are based on factual errors.
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Fair enough.
Glad we understand each other on that matter.
Really? I’m almost level 4 but have played several standard and blitz matches. Collected every daily free chest and taken advantage of other bonuses. Still not level 4. It doesn’t seem the same for everyone.