So the most mobile hero in the game can just be completely changed into a Reim-speed hero but Reza, Anka and Kensei’s chase is different somehow? Reza has literally no CD compared to BF, has 3 dashes which are also free directional (all of them, unlike BF’s) and on top of that he has higher base movement speed. How’s that fair? Don’t tell me he’s bad at 1v1, because he’s great even at that. Also yes for example Anka is squishier than BF but on the other hand in 5v5 teamfight do you believe BF is better at surviving than her?
Except they nerfed his damage even more…? And his CD on A and Ult… and his barrier on B. Don’t get your point here.
Have you checked his CD? Yes of course if he actually wants to you can’t escape him true. What about next person that comes to him? What if it’s in a team fight? He can’t do anything. If you gotta go all-in to kill a single target you’re supposed to counter in 1v1 (which was his specialty and he was supposed to win any besides against Krul) and then be useless how’s that good thing for the game? An assassin and best duelist in the game (formerly of course) has to waste every single thing he has to not die to a hero he counters? That’s good? At the same time he can win a duel against every other melee in the game (again not including Krul). It just makes no sense.
Check what I said above, kinda related.
It’s not only about balance. If Skye is oppressive would you remove her target lock if it would fix her? Remove Krul’s weakness stacks and just deal flat damage? You can’t expect to just change the basics of a hero and expect the people that love the hero to be happy. It’s not like BF was broken since release. Yes he was OP for a few patches before and during 5v5 but that’s it. Yes he’s had other times when he was meta but do you even consider how long he had been just balanced before this happened?
Hate to debate with you, but mathematically bonesaw is a poor first buy.
Let’s assume you buy at at level 7, most enemies will have around 60 armor, and squishiest will have less (around 55). Now, looking purely at just damage, poisoned Shiv grants 25% attack speed, and 30 wp. However as it’s 450 gold cheaper you can buy a weapon blade (with some left over) making it 40 wp. Bonesaw grants 20% attack speed and 40 wp. On BF you’ll have 120 wp + 40, so the Pierce will only add 15 damage per basic attack or so, and that’s with max stacks. And remember poisoned Shiv has 5% more attack speed.
How does that out value the huge amount of survivability poisone Shiv grants, especially when laning which is what you will mostly be doing early on anyway, when the damage is only arguably higher for PS, and you stack up your perk slower.
Second to this, is that many of the forumers already made well-accepted fan-made changes to BF that would still have the same old kit but more toned down so I dont know why you’re saying that the OG BF players “don’t have an amazing handle” to the game.
Theres not denying the fact that SEMC took the easy way out when changing BF to be more tame-able.
Well you are right and wrong. It depends on which skill you are upgrading first. If you are upgrading his B then Shiv is the proper buy because it can let you duel much better but from a distance? Upgrading his B as WP BF makes no sense and that is why you upgrade his A which will give you a A reset when it becomes maxed.
His A can be considered as an enhanced basic attack which provides execution damage similar to Anka’s perk but different obviously. This is why if you get full BS stacks on someone, you will get full heart stacks as well meaning that in the mid-game (arguably BF’s best time to transition into hypercarry status in the late game) you will pop people with an execute reaching OP numbers such as 400-600 damage based on the person you are fighting. Continue to do this and you will get Shiv within 2 minutes which gives you even more dueling power to help you buy BP. 11 minutes in you have all three of your items and you just build all the situational defense items you want whether it be Aegis, SH, Atlas, or MJ.
RockBomber the 100% best BF NA has been doing this as well so it is a fact that SM BP is complete garbage on him and BS is the better buy compared to PS first item.
Being an OG player doesn’t make you an authority on game design, but regardless I’m also an OG player.
The fact is the fan ideas all retain BF old chase potential, which is the part of his kit people wan’t to bring back. They usually tone down some other part of his kit, but really the chase potential is the problem.
I guess I don’t see why everyone assumes they understand the game better than the people who developed or worked on it. Everyone always talks about how they want nivmett back, and how zekent is worse at balancing the game, but nivmett was the one who vocally defended the BF change with many valid reasons. Both gameplay and technical (but I forgot some people here think the technical issues were some kind of conspiracy and were just an excuse lol)
New BF is actually on par with other heroes, he has weaknesses, and has to play around them just like everyone else, but he still has many strengths. Why do we wan’t to bring back someone who literally had no weaknesses? It was more fun for BF players, but certainly not for everyone else.
The most salt comes from that he was super fun to play both CP and WP. We where given a super fun hero to play and then they took it away. People generally tend to not like to be given something only to be taken away. The main problem is 5vs5, in 3vs3 environment he was OK tho hard to balance, but in 5vs5 he was just strong or as you said - should be made total potato no dmg. Even then he was going to be good, because of his utility that goes team wide (including rose trail here for the “real” bf) and items like AS, TB (tho not that much anymore), BP, DE that will let him scale in dmg even if base/ratios are low.
I am sad as I found it late as a hero and soon after they removed all his kit… and I had so much FUN playing him even when he was not that strong in the given patch. Even a potato he was just pure fun as mechanics and effects he got leading to really epic combos/teamplays.
Im not salty because they took away his execute scaling or rose trail. But that there was barely to zero attempt to balance it out before the removal of it.
He can be balanced with his full kit, including rose trail. They just took the easy way. Yes, would have had patches where he is stronger or weaker, but that goes for every hero anyway. Removing hero kit and by that much and killing his identity - is a no go for ANY game and done ONLY in extreme circumstances. BF was clearly not that case and they could have just balance him out + a lot changed in the meta, items, how people play since. They didn’t know what they want the 5vs5 mode to be, but hurried up to “balance” killing a loved hero with unique side … we wanna chase a slippery MF? Pick BF. Also to top it out - there are bans if in the given patch he was on the strong side. I would argue that even with his full kit there are other great hero picks nowdays. He was not going to be the “ban/pick” every game.
Kinda funny how literally NO ONE was complaining about anything in BF’s kit or how strong he was (besides the few patches when he was broken). But now that it’s removed some people act like he was in constant Release Kensei state since release.
Or smaller speed boost, or narrower speed boost effect zone (so the team should be stacked behind to make it work = less heroes will follow), or smaller speed boost for the allies while the same for BF. Possibilities, but you know - it’s easier to kill a loved hero.
