ATM, A cp vox with AC DE EOH can almost 1v1 a ringo with SB BP TB. Thats not supposed to happen lmao.
AND YES VOX IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MAGE WITH NO 1v1 POTENTIAL, cos if you want the 1v1 potential, you go wp. Other mages cant go wp.
And no, CP vox is meta right now and kinda OP. Especially in 3v3. 5v5 not so much. But considering SEMC does both balancing together, CP vox + Ardan + krul/alpha/glaive is really strong in 3v3 right now.
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Yet other mages rely on their own skill and has 1v1 potential with a lot more range and reliable damage.
Giving that WP Vox is dead I don’t see a problem.
Can’t agree.
He is right now not even top tier in 3v3.
False, they have been trying not to break too much 3v3, but they only balance 5v5, at least until next update, when they said they will take a look at the 3v3 state.
Krul is broken in 3v3 doesn’t matter with who you pair him.
Alpha is meh in 3v3.
Glaive is shit in 3v3.
Ardan is also consider 4th best support pick.
Edit: you can’t just nerf his 1v1 damage because before they buffed it, CP Vox was straight up garbage, so nerfing it will send him back to that state, and given that his WP build is dead, you can’t just kill the only viable build as every hero needs to be viable. The updates prior to 3.8 he was struggling to maintain himself relevant as a CP hero, the only reason why he is now strong is because other mages got nerfed hard with the energy, bring them back and CP Vox falls. Also, the energy changes were another nerf to WP Vox as he was the only sniper that got nerfed. If they bring back WP Vox I’m okey with nerfing Cp Vox, but right now I’m not as that would basically kill Vox.
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I see cp vox picked in every game. Its either him or CP idris. And I am talking about Vainglorious level. Maybe we are just different servers? And yes alpha sucks but its all about the cp vox. Alpha just has to stick to opp carry and just tank the damage lol.
3v3? I also edited my comment.
Enough of the bickering, folks. I moved almost 50 posts to a new topic for that reason. If you want to talk about balance issues, this is the thread to do it in. If you want to argue back and forth with @Sandiha, do it in the other thread.
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40 posts were split… Holy crap
Also nice name 
Reza, L3oN, & with a side of bickering
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Mathematically there is not reason to go BS before PS, I’m sure it’s a good build but that order is wrong even if it’s what RockBomber uses (he’s an amazing player ik).
PS is cheaper, and gives lane sustain.
The build actually makes a lot of sense to be though, as BF’s A has a flat execute in stead of a WP ratio now, so the attack speed let’s hit engage with ult, stack quickly, and execute asap. Bonesaw, BP, PS also means he pretty much can’t lose a duel. Honestly with PECO making kensei work top lane, I would not be suprised if BF comes back as a top lane since the tank meta there is dead.
The difference is that BF has the stats of a squishy, not a bruiser.
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Well, that’s true, he’s not indented to be a bruiser as much as a duelist, and the insane slipperiness of his kit especially after the rework which means he can use his A to juke and escape in stead of just chase reflects that.
No warrior bruiser should be able outplay like an assassin, that’s a recipe for an overloaded hero. BF should never be able to front line like Rona or Kensei, when he has the dive and escape of Reza. BF is closest to WP Idris in playstyle.
I hate when people say his new A is good because of that. He had speed boost for a short while after leaving the trail as well. It could again be used for escape against target that’s in point blank range. Yes it lasted a bit less BUT it didn’t decay and you were unslowable. No amount of speed boost will let you escape for example GJ A, while rose trail could do that.
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Not only that, BF was designed for sustain, yet they “rework” his A to burst, so he is neither burst of sustain, he is right now, nothing. An assassin with no mobility (too much cooldown in his ult), no ability spam, no burst; or a bruiser squishy, with no sustain and with half his kit.
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Exactly, he isn’t near impossible to escape anymore, it was a nerf. Blackfeather was near impossible to balance, because had too much chase potential. He’s A stoped him from being slowed, and lasted way longer, his B slowed, and his ult (while on a longer cooldown) was similar to how it was now.
Sure they could have toned his numbers down, but the only way to make him balanced would have been to make him have pathetic damage output, because you sure as hell couldnt beat him by getting away. If you design a hero to have both unlimited chase, and focus on 1v1 dueling similar to Krul, you have a problem.
New BF actually gives you the potential to get away which means they cane tone his damage and other stats higher. He still has tools to chase, his ult is especially potent, but not to an insane degree like before.
Frankly, if you all think old BF was somehow a good thing for the game you don’t have an amazing handle on game design and balancing.
It has way too much cooldown and the focus cost is too much, not even talking about the fact that right now he plays with half his kit.
I’ve been using it because I can say and justify that I am probably the 2nd best BF player in NA considering the amount of BF players there are right now. I have to still improve on my mechanics with him such as using my Ult to do damage and as a Reflex Block.
BS is better than PS btw. Since I level up his A first I get that mid game one shot potential which BS further increases with it shredding enemy’s base armor or additional armor. I’m considering getting making PS and SM interchangeable but the infinite lifesteal and attack speed seems too good + it’s cheap. BP is just a staple for someone with this playstyle.
I’m going to test the same exact build on Kensei in a future ranked match. It just makes sense that it would work, though Kensei does require raw WP…
Hmm, they said it’s a buff in the notes though.
So the most mobile hero in the game can just be completely changed into a Reim-speed hero but Reza, Anka and Kensei’s chase is different somehow? Reza has literally no CD compared to BF, has 3 dashes which are also free directional (all of them, unlike BF’s) and on top of that he has higher base movement speed. How’s that fair? Don’t tell me he’s bad at 1v1, because he’s great even at that. Also yes for example Anka is squishier than BF but on the other hand in 5v5 teamfight do you believe BF is better at surviving than her?
Except they nerfed his damage even more…? And his CD on A and Ult… and his barrier on B. Don’t get your point here.
Have you checked his CD? Yes of course if he actually wants to you can’t escape him true. What about next person that comes to him? What if it’s in a team fight? He can’t do anything. If you gotta go all-in to kill a single target you’re supposed to counter in 1v1 (which was his specialty and he was supposed to win any besides against Krul) and then be useless how’s that good thing for the game? An assassin and best duelist in the game (formerly of course) has to waste every single thing he has to not die to a hero he counters? That’s good? At the same time he can win a duel against every other melee in the game (again not including Krul). It just makes no sense.
- Check what I said above, kinda related.
- It’s not only about balance. If Skye is oppressive would you remove her target lock if it would fix her? Remove Krul’s weakness stacks and just deal flat damage? You can’t expect to just change the basics of a hero and expect the people that love the hero to be happy. It’s not like BF was broken since release. Yes he was OP for a few patches before and during 5v5 but that’s it. Yes he’s had other times when he was meta but do you even consider how long he had been just balanced before this happened?
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Hate to debate with you, but mathematically bonesaw is a poor first buy.
Let’s assume you buy at at level 7, most enemies will have around 60 armor, and squishiest will have less (around 55). Now, looking purely at just damage, poisoned Shiv grants 25% attack speed, and 30 wp. However as it’s 450 gold cheaper you can buy a weapon blade (with some left over) making it 40 wp. Bonesaw grants 20% attack speed and 40 wp. On BF you’ll have 120 wp + 40, so the Pierce will only add 15 damage per basic attack or so, and that’s with max stacks. And remember poisoned Shiv has 5% more attack speed.
How does that out value the huge amount of survivability poisone Shiv grants, especially when laning which is what you will mostly be doing early on anyway, when the damage is only arguably higher for PS, and you stack up your perk slower.
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Ok. OK. Ok.
Second to this, is that many of the forumers already made well-accepted fan-made changes to BF that would still have the same old kit but more toned down so I dont know why you’re saying that the OG BF players “don’t have an amazing handle” to the game.
Theres not denying the fact that SEMC took the easy way out when changing BF to be more tame-able.
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