Balance changes issue

IF used aggressively, I agree. A good ping and a mobility ability can get you out of almost every B. However, if used defensively, it’s quite difficult to actually dodge. A good Celeste will be able to hit most melee divers by placing it at the end of their first dash. This forces them to either pop a RB OR to use another mobility ability (if they CAN use another mobility ability). This basically forces divers to spend extra resources to dive Celeste compared to other mages (Skaarf only really needs boots, Varya needs to channel, Baron exclusively has one escape and can be punished easily afterwards, ect.).

If you have the correct vision, then yes. Long range Celeste ults aren’t particularly hard to dodge. But in teamfights, Celeste ult is often impossible to dodge, and it chunks incredibly hard. And considering that Celeste and many of her teammates require your RB to dodge their CC, it’s often not a good idea to RB it, or your RB won’t be up.

Celeste does have counters (such as BF or Taco), but she is so oppressive against characters she counters/should be neutral against that it’s insane.

Also seriously I’ve killed/been killed from 80% with/by her ult before that thing is not okay.

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Problem is the part well-played and she’s a menace right there. You see, us T6S-T7Gs have watched a lot of pro vids to learn and we have learned to master 1 hero and when you master Celeste, she’s straight up OP. And besides, Celeste’s counters have always been away from the Rise or the Fold. Every damn counter has been banned or now is too weak to play. Amirite @ThePinkOtter ?
Btw the deterioration here is that we don’t have explainations for the buffs and nerfs. Sometimes the buffs/nerfs are just stupid but they don’t give us explainations.

I’d say the best counter you can ACTUALLY GET in soloQ is Blackfeather, but he isn’t particularly consistent. He’s a great target to camp since he’s melee, squishy, and doesn’t have a real escape till level 6. Compared to a character such as Celeste, he has way more weaknesses and can’t really be picked early.
Koshka and Krul can possibly gank a Celeste to stop her getting to late game, but mid laners have the safest lane from ganks and Celeste doesn’t need to play aggressively. If needed, a Celeste can just farm under tower and be relatively safe throughout the game.

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Wp grace counters Celeste

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Incorrect.
Although a powerhouse, WP grace has difficulties into Celeste. This is because of how predictable her dash is, and how she only has one mobility ability. It’s very easy to simply put down a B and then run away, and boots if needed. After this, she can generally rely on her team to dissuade any further dives.
Plus, if you try to lane against Celeste as WP Grace, she’s one of the very few characters that can actually zone and trade against you, because of how ridiculous her damage is, so it’s much more difficult to gain an early advantage against her than a laner such as Vox.

Did you guys watch the game between hammers and TSM? Hammers easily won draft, getting the Ardan-Celeste-Krul combo that’s so deadly, yet they lost hard, in part because of how hard their Celeste was shut down (and Chuck completely outtraded her with his Samuel). A lot of the reasons why people want her nerfed is either they can’t play her or they can’t deal with her. Every assassin is good into her, most mid laners outtrade her early (in fact I’d say all except cp Idris) and she’s very vulnerable to heavy dive like Fortress, Rona, BF. She will also lose 1v1 to ADCs so if she’s caught out she’s pretty much toast.

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Problem here is in 5v5, most ADCs are too busy splitpushing bot lane and by the time they have taken the first turret, it’s already at the 7th minute. Celeste is OK at that point. And bro, every diver is also helping bot lane successfully push the first turret within that 7 minutes.
Btw, assasins are good into every laner so we can throw that aside.

I’m sure they take into consideration ban, pick and win rates for hero’s when they make balance changes.

Celeste doesn’t have an unusually high win rate in fact she’s not in the top 5 on any server. She’s also not on the top 5 ban rate for any server, sure she gets played a lot, sure she is a spam monster late game with huge DMG, but seems none of this has made her OP. It’s not a case of pick Celeste and win, she is very squishy, not especially mobile and if targeted doesn’t last long in team fights.

Personally enjoy the fact she is back in the meta, she’s not been a top lane choice for months.

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Samuel has lower pick rate and win rate than Celeste and somehow he gets a nerf while Celeste is untouched
I have lots of things to say that ur wrong but Idk how I can describe my idea. My guild mates and friends are surprised when Cel gets no nerf

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Celeste is near 100% pick/ban rate in the VGL for good reason: the pros know how to play her. She was a meta carry before(2.7) so they learned her. The also know how dangerous she is in the right hands.

But in lower tiers, she is quite laughable because of her high skill cap in the terms of landing her a and running away from dives. She only starts to become a threat at T6(where I am atm) where players who play her actually know how to play her and they know how to counter pick her counters.

This all in all makes her winrate pretty balanced. There are still counters of celeste who aren’t off meta like BF and her potential is insane but we also have to remember that Malene is coming out next patch and she may change the mage meta forever, we don’t know.

So I think it was a good idea to for SEMC to let her stay where she is. The meta might shift violenty with Malene’s introduction to the Sovereign’s Rise.

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Samuel unlike many other mages has one of the highest sustained CONSISTENT damage outputs in the laet game with his drifting dark and empowered A. His Empowered A unlike Celeste’s A is so much easier to land and has virtually no cooldown when empowered making his damage too much compared with celeste. Because CW practically resets his drifting dark cooldown, they had nerf the cooldown to give Sam some sort of weakness in the late game where he can stay empowered forever with literally no drawbacks.

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Celeste basically has 0 cooldown too and she doesnt need to be “empowered” like Sam. If Sam gets dived, he probably can’t escape since his ult is so obvious to block and his B gives such small speed boost AND it draws a path so you’ll probably know where he’s gonna go. Celeste in the other hand, with just 1 good carefully aimed B, can shutdown melee trying to jump on her and turn the table around. And if somehow Celeste is fed, she won’t be scared to fight you in close range since she’ll move around her star and bait you to eat supernovas, OR she can ignore them and blows up enemy’s backline trying to follow up since her A can’t be bodyblocked. Not to mention her ult, which is the strongest nuke in the game which deletes 3/4 squshies’ health bar (along with CP Baron’s ult but at least you can hear it coming)
Celeste is not like straight up OP or broken or busted like Taka, but she needs just a small, reasonable nerf.

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I think you are forgetting once more that Celeste is immobile. She is the most immobile mage in the history of VG. The thing is, it is extremely difficult for a Celeste to be fed, to be so fed that she can afford to fight at close range as she gets deleted in a matter of 1,2,3 when dived upon. Compared to other mages, Celeste has no source of mobility. Skaarf can use his goop to annoy divers to hell and use his boots. Varya has her double dash. Sam can ATTACK WHILE MOVING where NO OTHER mage in VG can, enabling him to have a better match-up against dive comps. The coming-soon Malene has a Barrier, a speed Boost, a root, a slow, and a period of invulnerability basically making her immune to dive comps. Celeste only has her stun, a stun that is very easy to miss with a fairly long cooldown.

And I have never denied that she did NOT need a nerf, all a said was that SEMCs decision to not nerf makes sense. Besides, when was the last time Celeste was OP?

Let her be for a next update and SEMC WILL NERF HER they always do after like 3 updates it is a pattern for celeste… As I mentioned earlier, Malene might take the mid lane by storn next update probably changing the meta completely. It’s funny on how NORMAL mage counters CAN’T be countered by Malene lol. Rona gets rooted, Krul gets rooted and Malene can dodge his stun with her B in dark form, She can match foretress’ movement with her B in Light Form while rooting him and going invulnerable, etc. She has a mage kit similar to kagura of mobile legends who can counter normal mage counters.

The only thing not going for her is her damage and her squishiness but hey, all mages are squishy?

The meta might change and celeste will get a nerf anyways. No need to worry.

Case closed.

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Personally feel that Celeste and Samuel are incredible strong but they also require skill to play, they also have inherent weaknesses (both can be deleted) which can be exploited.

Late game Celeste is a monsters but, getting to late game is the problem as she is fairly weak early game and need to be fed to be relevant.

Samuel has a huge sustain early game, he also scales very well imo late, he doesn’t really have a phase where he isn’t incredible good.

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This incorrect. I balance the game with the aim of the win rates of T8-T10(bronze). There are very few heroes I balance for lower tiers. (Mainly SAW and Taka) This is due to toxic gameplay and player frustrations. (Dont worry I will be visiting these 2 soon.) =)

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Honestly if you can fix saw trolls you will be good XD

Im a live balancer not a miracle worker. >_>

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Maybe make saw the most expensive hero to buy with glory like 16k but leave the ice value the same

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LOL I am pretty sure people will be HELLA tilted with us if we did that.

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That’s very interesting… it’s afarlynlogical when you think about it.