I think a big question is to ask if the devs are ever gonna be on here. I think whether we have the devs acknowledgement or not we should still continue the forum of course but I think asking this question and coming to a conclusion will help us decide the direction this forum should take.
My guess would be that the devs do not intend to visit and it’s the most pessimistic option so let’s go with that for now. I would say if this is the case we should try to make the forums more of a discussion of Vainglory gameplay. If the devs are not watching I see no point in making suggestions because the devs will not see them. For example discussing the new UI, or what semc does with their skins because they will not listen to us. But I think we should focus on and discuss gameplay with each other and try to help each other improve. I know that sounds obvious to do on a forum but let’s be realistic the last forum this was not done as much. There were guides and such but beyond that whenever people suggested things to each other and said what worked for them I felt like overall the forums as a whole ignored each other and just went with their opinion on gameplay or how to play a hero. This was not every forumer but let’s not act like it was uncommon. I believe we should try to listen to each other more and discuss strategies, builds, who’s op or up without “attacking” each other.
I in no way am saying that I know what’s best for heroes or really know the builds to put on heroes or in general able to speak about how to play heroes or contribute to these discussions. Even with my long and early history with VG I just don’t play VG as much as I use to and even then only play blitz because it’s quick. I don’t mean to attack but be truthful the devs have really pushed my away from this game and it’s apparent. But if the community can be more then what the devs are I would like to get back into the game, if I can see the community be cooperative and engaged in the game as in 2015 I could get back into it. I don’t mean to sound hopeful and trying to push agendas on anyone, that was a little off-topic but I wanted to be truthful.
But overall I wanna see where you guys think the forums should go. Someone plz comment ;-; lol
I don’t think they will visit often.
They closed the old forums for a reason–they don’t look at it. So it’s even less likely that they will regularly look into this forum.
This is still a great place for discussion.
What I suggest is that we have a monthly “letter to the devs” type of thing, where we compile our major discussions and suggestions into one document and deliver this to the devs via Reddit.
A few devs have accounts here, so that means there is some level of acknowledgement of this place (even if it’s not that high) from SEMC. We can only wait and see if they actually become active in this part of the community, though.
Big +1 that this place should be focused first on just being helpful and supportive for each other! In fact, I’d say that’s true regardless of whether or not devs visit here. Although, for the record, at least a few have already signed up and browsed a bit.
And I wouldn’t worry about making suggestions or not making suggestions based on who you think is reading. Often, when I’m working on an idea - whether it’s an in-game suggestion, an academic article, or a design visualization - I’m doing it so that I understand my own thoughts better. If I knew exactly what the product would be, I probably wouldn’t create things the way I do. And this forum is a great place to work through ideas with other people, and hopefully, together, find an even better solution.
Also remember, we can tweet or forward ideas to devs if there’s something that needs particular attention or would be great for them to see. Just because the forum is on a different platform, and is now community-run, doesn’t mean that our relationship to the devs has really changed. For instance, I’ve already sent along a couple neat ideas that I’ve seen written up here. No idea if they’ll make it into the game, but I know that the devs at least got the info, and are interested in what their players have to say.
Even if devs don’t post here, I think this forum will ultimately be a much more productive space for the player-dev relationship.
I think the forum purge is going to be good for the community. The place often became a host for open letters of disappointment in SEMC because it was the official forum. There was also a level of disrespect between posters that was maddening. I am really enjoying the current community and the sectioning of the forum is just much better. Great job to those who stepped up!!
Oh that’s helpful. When do we draw the line between criticism and complaining. Some complaining can be valid but just presented poorly. Like I said I do believe the forums acted mostly rationally as a whole to problems. But the energy and the lack of effort to communicate about gameplay was my problem with the forums.
I do think it has been an opportunity for the community to choose what it wants to be and reset a bit. I think it was also an opportunity to step away from the sense of hurt that the forum shared that we didn’t get that much active developer engagement any more - even though we were the “official forums”.
I know that devs are reading this forum - some have signed up, others are just watching. The devs are very good about finding and reading relevant stuff. And like Hipster I have sometimes pointed devs towards particular posts here in their field of interest.
What I don’t know is whether they will interact with the forums - I am hoping they do so - but for that to happen we have to keep this a place they will want to interact on. And if they do interact here it won’t be in an official capacity it will because they want to join in.
I would like the devs to acknowledge the problems and show that they’re listening but I really don’t want them to comment a lot. When the official forums was closing wolf hands took the time to reply and got so much hate. I’m not defending the devs but let’s not outright insult them even when they do give outright BS answers. (We all know the excuse he gave weren’t good) But like I said I don’t and didn’t like the direct insults when he actually went out of his way to talk to us.
I like @PopcornOne letter to the devs idea. Maybe once a month, moderators and admins could choose 10 or so of the best topics/discussions/debates/suggestions and pin it in Dear SEMC, with the topic being that month. We could send those to other platforms and discuss feedback, etc
That’s easy. Don’t spew rants and then expect otherss to take you seriously if you ignore other opinions.
Look. If people want to give constructive criticism, that ain’t hard. The problem is that people have to be fair. The general attitude of a post should generally not be “SEMC Always Greedy!!!”. If someone only spouts negativity, they clearly aren’t going to acknowledge much in the way of success.
Think about it. Would anyone want to listen to you in real life, if you always rejected others for _ reason? If you refuse to implement any idea you didn’t come up with? If you refuse to be talked down after getting mad about something - no matter how (in)reasonable it might be? Why would they listen to you if you don’t bother to hear them out either?
I think I can legitimately say I have a balanced opinion of SEMC. This is already enough for a significant number of people to label me a “White Knight”. They ignore the times that I criticize SEMC and make mountains out of molehills. The only plausible explanation is that they cannot accept a different point of view - that someone who sees things differently is “wrong” by definition and can be written off.
We see the same bullshit in the political sphere. No wonder people hate talking about politics!
We can use the Golden Ticket fiasco as a relevant and very simple example. I read a lot of golden ticket posts without logging into the forums (meaning I read people I ignored). Guess what. These people were not constructively criticizing. Most were bashing SEMC and were perfectly happen to read other posts - as long as their own angry beliefs were validated. Remember those posts from people who were NOT infuriated and explained why they didn’t think the golden ticket fiasco was such a big deal? I bet many people don’t, because I saw those posts get very little attention.
Don’t give me any silliness about forummers not complaining. Many of them complain all the damn time, and don’t intend to further the game. They just want to spew salt and make SEMC change stuff, without a real discussion. They want to rationalize extremely counterproductive and poor behavior so that they can continue to feel validated.
That is the key. DISCUSSI0N. Without that, constructive criticism easily veers into useless salty shitposting.
On a less grouchy note, I’m sure the devs will look at this forum. However, we cannot make that our primary focus. It is entirely possible for us to reach them without asking them to make accounts here. If we want to make a suggestion we can focus on making it good here, first, then give them better quality feedback and suggestions. Also gives a chance to filter out some of the salt.
The forums have to be self sustaining. So expectations and goals need to be in line as well. If we create good content and quality discussion (re: stop disguising salt mine posts as “suggestions”) then the core users will be much more interested in sticking around. Developers will find a more consistently helpful user base and forum. Starting out by trying to pander for their attention won’t be sustainable.
I agree with Saints that the developers often got unnecessary flack from the old site. On some topics though, we will potentially need a discussion with them. At that point we all definitely want a culture that doesn’t revolve around festering rage towards the heathens named SEMC. (Its definitely counterproductive to shoot the messenger)
Just to echo idmon, this place has been great so far. It’s nice to have people sign up and come here that actually discuss things intelligently and not everything is a shit post. I image that the more people that sign up the more it’s going to slide into “daytime talk show” quality content, but for now, I think it’s great.
It really feels like the old forums before everyone had to be a comedian and try to one-up the other for funny and like ratings.
