A few thoughts on Ciderhelm's post - 3.3


#1

Go ahead, hate on me, but you can’t change the facts. This is my last post in a long time for reasons I will elaborate on shortly. I’m sure some wannabe officer is going to flag this as needing merging to the quoted thread and I really don’t care. I think my comments are different and analytical enough to warrant a separate post - if only so that people can read it in a brief respite from the frothing SEMC hate.

“But Magmaw”, you say. “SEMC is wasting their time with all this crap and they should be fixing Matchmaker and shit!”. To these people, I say:

A. Matchmaker is a constant problem for everyone. Suck it up buttercup
B. Matchmaker is better than you think, you just don’t like your teammates and cognitive bias takes care of the rest.
C. Do you seriously expect the whole of SEMC to work on whatever fills your personal bucket list of improvements, while putting everything else on hold?

The first thing I want to point out, is that somewhat hyped language is normal. Maybe a lot of you lack real life experience, or are just highly unobservant. But its normal for people to hype stuff up to keep their supporters motivated. If you read too far into this when they provide few details, its your own fault. Its their job.

Ranked leaderboards are not a bad idea - hopefully they lead to more API support ingame. Likewise, we’ve asked for ranked rewards for a long time. I used to be against them myself - viewing them as unnecessary. But someone (@Tamaticon?) had the argument that its worthwhile if it gets more people to actually take ranked seriously. And from that angle, ranked rewards are something we’ve been waiting for a good while.

Additionally, some of the high tier players I used to talk to went dark - in large part because hitting T10 felt like the endgame with no real reward or achievement for hitting it again. The game also felt too boring after a while. So I suspect they are trying to keep more of the upper end of players. It’s also another way to show who is higher tier ingame - hopefully helping teams coalesce around the better players more often.

Now, the elephant in the room. Joystick controls. Let me put this bluntly. Who the fuck cares that we get joystick controls, and how on earth does this hamper your experience? I’m very, very tired of this elitist “ooh I play Vainglory so I’m better than all the noobs who play ML or AoV” attitude. The fact of the matter is that SEMC focusing on a quality game did NOT grow VG anywhere near as much as they would have liked. If they are going to compete seriously with the other mobile mobas, they need to make it easier for people to join and start playing. I stopped playing League myself despite it being a better game, because I found the controls too difficult to adjust to. Same will happen for other mobile players, and most of them will be a lot more casual than I am. To me, touch controls will always be superior to joystick controls, but that is no reason to exclude those players. If there is a reason to not include joystick controls other than “it makes us like them trash MOBAs!?!” I’d like to hear it. Given the low quality of discussion and high levels of salt and uninformed discussion however, I am not optimistic. I view this exactly like ranked rewards. If it helps make the game more enjoyable or more accessible to more players, then its a benefit whether it showed up on my personal biased wishlist or not.

Voice chat is in no way a bad addition here. With a few tweaks (such as a way to know if someone is muting you/is talking) it can be very workable in soloque. If they can make a voice chat that causes less lag than Discord I’m all for it. Its a royal pain to have Discord chat going without a second device to manage it - keeping it in-app is much better. And for those of you who haven’t paid any attention, the other main MOBAs on mobile were focused on integrating as many features as possible to make their games a one-stop shop and make socializing easier. It would be foolish to NOT let VG go down the same route if you want them to succeed.

I should also point out they are pushing out these features for testing sooner under a larger player base than their normal testing group. Put another way - its easier for them to find more bugs this way, and should help make their official launches smoother.


Now, why am I stopping posting? Let’s see:

  • Salt Content masquerading as “discussion” (looking at you, hero balance threads)
  • Constant biased whining about matchmaker
  • Constant whining every time SEMC says something that isn’t exactly what you wanted
  • Highly uninformed opinions being shunted as facts with no effort to research or present a less biased view
  • (Intentional?) ignoring of important factors, and cherry picking data and anecdotes. We know who you are.
  • You aren’t special because you play the “better” but less popular MOBA on mobile.

I get it. There are a lot of issues that SEMC has not fixed. I am not happy about it either. But if you have any real life experience at all, you should know that you still take what you can get. We all know SEMC is bad with communication (in part because certain people keep shredding them every time they open up to us). Don’t make them shut up and ignore us because you didn’t get what you wanted. Some of these issues I’ve seen come up time and time again are either spewing from uninformed people, or are perpetual issues that larger game companies also struggle with. Even if SEMC has a long time to work on this stuff, its not as simple as managing your homework. Perhaps some of you need a little experience organizing real projects.Some of the rest of you. You are adults, but you clearly aren’t showing it.

I could stick around to talk to some of you, but its abundantly clear that we are right back to where we were with the old forums (sorry Idmonfish!). SEMC is probably sad they can’t kill this place off either, and to a large extent I wouldn’t blame them. While Reddit is a hive mind, at least they know how to be happy. I don’t see a point in going through with other planned topics if its highly unlikely I get any decent discussion. Discussion I couldn’t get over discord if I really wanted to, that is.

Toodles. :slight_smile:


#2

I don’t really care about the new controls because they are optional, or I would’nt really care until they start reworking the heroes to fit the joystick playstyle.
That will surely hamper my experience, and in a bad way.
Edit:


#3

Exactly that or add another button in a cluttered UI on phones. Not to mention when joysticks come to make controls easier an auto lock is to follow because tapping a screen is too hard


#4

Well idmonfish said that they won’t implement auto lock, so that’s good.


#5

SEMC is trying their best to draw in more players and the joystick is a big step towards that. I don’t even understand why people are so pressed about them adding one, if you don’t like it then just don’t use it.


#6

Your post would have been more effective without all the bashing of the members here with whom you disagree.

I find these “I’m leaving but before I go, I want to say …” posts to be the equivalent of people shouting then storming out of the room during an argument.

If you want to change people’s minds, engage them in discussion. If you don’t want to, then just go elsewhere. The internet is a big place, and there are plenty of places to hang out that you might find more agreeable.


#7

I don’t know what gives you the idea that your complaints on the community should be accepted but other people’s complains aginst SEMC shouldn’t but when I look at this I don’t see any difference than a typical post in salt mine. this doesn’t even deserve to be merged to the main thread
you aren’t more special than anyone else in here buddy, no one cares about your posts or your reasons for stopping to post here.

lmao


#8

Hey everyone, I’m going to close this thread. It started under a bad premise - to throw some shade at fellow forumers - and I think it will only encourage people to insult each other here on out. Let’s dial it back a bit.

Whatever your thoughts on the Optional Joysticks, Voice Chat, or Ranked Rewards, I think it’s awesome that SEMC is working hard to make the game exciting and interesting and accessible for lots of people. Also, it should be pretty clear that they’re taking steps to be a bit more transparent and figure out how to onboard the community with game news like this.

Any comments, and I’d ask you to please move them to the other thread in the announcements category. Thank you thank you!

https://vgforums.net/t/hey-this-is-ciderhelm-and-im-here-to-share-some-updates/2990?source_topic_id=3020

#9