I guess spamming abilities without control is considered high skill nowadays.
I would think that someone who’s been around the game so long would know that OP heroes are often far easier to play and abuse than their intended power level. Look at Varya, when her basic attacks were way over tuned even I could play her, now that it actually requires aim and use of her combos to make her work she’s far more difficult. People even called Kensei easy, but now he’s only used by the very best players because he’s quite mechanically demanding and even little mistakes can lead to death very quickly (also he is kinda meh lol)
In Caine’s case the issue is two fold, firstly he is over powered so naturally is easier to play, and secondly his numbers are not in the correct place. The skill in Caine’s kit is meant to come from ammo management, fast ability combos (think anka), and landing small skill shots. Right now his B late game with a spellsword (or even without one) is on such a short cooldown that he almost does not have to worry about ammo, this also means that he can spam his A without depleting ammo which removes a lot of the decision making and punishment in his kit. Early mid game, if you miss an A, you will get heavily punished especially if you dashed towards enemies to land it because you just lost half you clip for nothing, and don’t have you dash up for 10+ seconds. Caine’s kit is actually quite demanding, his ult is possibly the hardest skill shot in the game (at least for the execute), he requires you to quickly combo abilities to maximize damage, and is a sniper with multiple skillshots. The issue is all of that stops mattering at level 8.
I really hope SEMC removes cooldown scaling on his B (ie, it’s the same cooldown at level 1-4, and give it a only a small reduction on overdrive. I really think that’s all he needs to be balanced, because his B is really core to his kit, and is what is being abused right now to make him OP.
That’s the problem: his B ability has the exact cooldown to be available once you waste all you bullets, so it becomes the only thing you can use. This makes him literally just spam everything you have, because the ways his cooldowns work it’s the correct way to combo his abilities.
The C doesn’t even need to be used to execute, it’s a perfect ability to poke with no punishment.
What makes him op it’s not only the B though, being able to completely delete a MJ carry with A+B+A is stupid. He has way too much damage, way too much mobility and no weakness. Even if it’s op and that makes him easier to play, he still is a just spam everything hero, and a simple cooldown nerf in the B won’t be enough.
If you miss an A in the early game is not the hero being hard, his A is one of the quickest skill shots in the game and can only be reliably dodged by predicting it, meaning any decent Cain should be able to bait you.
I know that, no problem, but he is straight up brain dead with no kind of strategy involved. Even kensei had to try harder, you literally can’t lose with Caine, even if it’s your first time. He is so stupidly easy to use… having a hero being “high skill cap” to being braindead it’s not just a matter of being op. His kit is not particularly hard to play, easier to play than say Celeste, and arguably as hard as skaarf. There is no risk involved in playing him.
I’m sorry, but I can’t call that hero high skill cap, he is, IMO, easy/medium-easy, and right now braindead.
Edit: the comparison with Varya is not fair because unlike Cain, Varya didn’t use any of her abilities (WP), she was all about AAing. If you make it so the op path is the Cp path she would had been far harder to use. Cain is using the whole kit and making those combos, and still he is stupidly easy to play.
He’s also honestly kinda fun to play, but his power level is so scummy you just feel bad for using him even on casual
As someone who recommended on the old forums that if semc was gonna release a hero it might as well be op rather than up (after the reza situation), I don’t completely knock them for most of their recent decisions. Ultimately with an op hero the outcry and lasting effect on the hero isn’t as bad as an up hero, within reason.
Even with Caine, as much outcry as there is about him, I’m sure people still bought him and he’s fairly popular. And everyone who knows how bad he can be just bans him. I don’t think they completely broke him just yet, but he’s going to need to be nerfed to fit his ‘expected’ mechanics at some point. His range on A should not be 11 at overdrive. Like…what? And his B definitely needs that cooldown rework. I mean why is he even getting cd reduction for basic attacks when his cooldown is already so low and his abilities are offensive? It defies the spectrum of relevant reason. Those are the two main problems. Give him a massive cd reduction on executions for all that and we can call it a day.
Only 2 lines, but already impactful.
A mouthful of dialogue here, but it doesn’t make the character sound pretentious and annoying.
The difference SugarVenom makes
Also never forget all of the hype for Churnwalker. The first teaser of him, all of the voiced lore for him, and the overall eerie feel they had were the peak of SEMC’s hypebuilding.
I thought Gwen’s teaser (Sep 2016) was pretty awesome as well:
Also, the comic they released for her was epic!
Crazy looking back at these reveals and noticing this massive difference in quality. Actually cinematic, unlike the current teasers with lines like “EvErYoNe MaKeS fUn Of HoW sMoL i Am. ImMa JuSt BlOw Em Up!” with ofc the same tone of voice like Caine…just high pitched. DOes not help that the hero is shown in the replay function. Even Flicker had a good reveal trailer! SugarVenom should never have been let go :’(
They could have gotten rid of the “if they do Imma blow them up” line at the very least. It just didn’t feel right…and make him sound a little cuter…Flicker’s voice works tho cause…I dunno it just works for him for some reason (Maybe it makes him sound like someone that could belong in Alice in Wonderland?). SV works in such weird ways :^)
Lyra and malene teaser was good too.
They hype about roamers being here.
And malene hype of being officially release.
I remember how hype I was for Malene… they even promoted their old lores to make fans remember who their princess was.
Gosh I srsly remember the Lyra and Lance reveals. The fact that we were getting not one, but TWO captains hyped me up SOOOO much! Even if they did end up being absurdly broken on release
Ikr. Its sad to see the state of the game.
Samuel also. “This is not how is raised you”. He is the hero that has hyped me the most… by far.
I think flicker teaser was good because I remember we were confused if it’s going to be a hero or a jungle monster , I was hoping for a jungle monster because 3v3 needed something like that , but it was flicker and he was good , not that great at that time but they changed him and made him better especially making him stay invisible while moving from bush to bush .
Why did 3v3 jungle need another jungle monster?
It’s sugarvenom for sure and ofc let’s not forget - budget. How much it costed to them as time and money to record this short clip via ingame replay function/recording and add the voice?
The difference in quality (both ingame and out of game) is depressing.
That’s before making mid treant and crystal sentry fight for you , the game was snowbally , I think the idea was making something distract enemy or fight with you , like 3v3 can be changed to something way good if they add more options than take my jungle or I take your jungle.
Relevant. Ever since SugarVenom left, the voice lines have been bad. It’s like every character is the same now. Keeps saying jokes, puns, and cliche lines.
Ugh. Im not into the model.
Tidbit: If you look at :06 to :08, you can see his shadow as he turns to run back down to midlane
Same reaction here. And what’s with the McDonald’s color palette again? Is he Caine’s little brother or something?
On the positive side, the FX look good as usual.